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Subject: Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat
Herc the Merc    12/26/2005 3:59:52 PM
At least 40 Hudong class chinese boats with 80, C-802 missiles, Bushehr class.
 
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MadRat    RE:The USN did sink several Iranian ships/boats   12/28/2005 9:08:37 AM
Gunfire and Maverick missiles.
 
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Jack Tarr    RE:The USN did sink several Iranian ships/boats   12/28/2005 9:18:10 AM
MadRat - "Gunfire and Maverick missiles." So this was from fixed wing aircraft? (Carrier based?)
 
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Galrahn    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 9:49:27 AM
"Do you have any info on how the USN sank these Iranian Boats? (Seahawk with Penguin/Hellfire perhaps?)" Ya it was called Operation Praying Mantis An A-6E from VA-95 dropped a cluster bomb several speedboats, sinking one and damaging several. The USS Wainwright was attacked by the Iranian Combattante II Kaman-class fast attack craft Joshan with a Harpoon ASM. The USS Wainwright and USS Simpson fired back with four Harpoon missiles, while the USS Bagley responded by firing one Harpoon. After taking hits, the Joshen was eventually sunk by all 3 ships using 5" and 76mm gunfire. 2 A-6Es launched 2 Harpoons and 4 Skipper bombs against the Iranian frigate Sahand, the USS Joseph Strauss also fired a Harpoon and sank the frigate. The operation took out 2 oil platforms, 6 speedboats, 1 fast attack boat, and 1 frigate. The US had 2 casualties, as a Cobra went down while flying reconnaissance. After the Operation the Cobra was raised from under the Gulf and both bodies were recovered. There was no battledamage, but considering it went down 15 miles from Abu Musa Island, it was speculated it crashed while evading Iranian gunfire.
 
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Jack Tarr    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 9:56:55 AM
Thanks Galrahn, very interesting. But Jeez, FIVE Harpoon plus Gunfire to sink 1 Combattante II ?!!! (and I was worried about 1 Harpoon or Exocet being overkill for a FAC!)
 
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat - Jack Tarr   12/28/2005 10:04:38 AM
As I understand it, Merlin is replacing Seaking, not Lynx. You're right. I was sorta unconsciously expecting the Merlin to replace the Lynx when they start to retire in 2009 and because no specific replacement has been selected yet. "Mr. Han: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has to ensure Royal Navy (a) frigates and (b) destroyers are equipped with embarked helicopters prior to the in-service date for the surface combatant maritime rotacraft; and if he will make a statement. [201631] Mr. Ingram: The Royal Navy frigates and destroyers will continue to be equipped as necessary with Lynx Mk3/8 or Merlin Mk1 as embarked helicopters until a replacement for the Lynx Mk3/8 is delivered under our future helicopter programme." http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmhansrd/cm041209/text/41209w11.htm "Mr. Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if the Merlin helicopter will be fitted with the Sea Shire 8 Jan 2002 : Column: 562W missile; what other anti-ship capability it will have; and what anti-ship capability (a) Type 23 frigates and (b) Type 45 destroyers will have. [24024] Dr. Moonie: I assume the hon. Member refers to the Sea Skua missile, currently fitted to the Royal Navy's Lynx helicopter. There are no plans to fit the Sea Skua to the Merlin helicopter. The helicopter has a state of the art, integrated mission system, and an extensive array of on-board sensors. These not only give Merlin an independent capability to search for, locate and attack submarine targets, but can also be used to detect ships and provide targeting information for attack by other units. The Type 23 frigate's anti-ship capability is provided by the Harpoon anti-ship missile, the Sea Skua missile fitted to its Lynx helicopter, the 4.5" Mk8 gun, and twin 30mm guns. It is planned that the Type 45 destroyer's anti-ship capability will be provided by the Sea Skua missile, fitted to its Lynx helicopter, together with the ship's medium range gunnery system, the 4.5" Mk8 Mod 1 gun and twin 30mm guns. The Type 45 is being designed to facilitate the incremental incorporation of additional capabilities, and as such allows for the fitting of a surface to surface guided missile, should the requirement for one be demonstrated." http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020108/text/20108w05.htm
 
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fitz    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 11:54:08 AM
Joshan was sunk by SM-1 Standard's, not Harpoon. Only one Harpoon was fired at Joshan during the exchange and it missed (Joshan was sinking - too low in the water to make a good target). During the Battle for Bubiyan channel USN SH-60's used their longer-ranged surface search radars to detect and track targets which were then engaged by Sea Skua armed Lynx. I don't think the SH-60 at the time had a missile capability of its own. The Iraqi boats, even numbering several modern TNC-45's and 57's were utterly helpless to respond and the entire flottila was slaughtered.
 
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Galrahn    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 12:06:59 PM
Ya Jack, Harpoon isn't exactly the best weapon system the US Navy has deployed. It might explain the big push in mutli capable standard missiles though. I have heard that the first wave of 4 harpoons was fired from over the horizon and was distracted by Chaff, but the 5th Harpoon fired from a vessel with a better fix on target that got the hit, but that is hearsay, I have no idea if it is true. The Harpoon was upgraded within a year of the action, improvements included better targetting, more speed, and improvements against smaller ships like the Corvette incountered during the Operation. The Harpoon used was the Block I version, or original Harpoon missile. In FY 2007 (about a year from now) Boeing expects to upgrade Block III currently used by the Navy today. There are too many differences to list between the Block I used in the 80s and the Block III used today.
 
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Galrahn    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 12:08:30 PM
"Joshan was sunk by SM-1 Standard's, not Harpoon. Only one Harpoon was fired at Joshan during the exchange and it missed (Joshan was sinking - too low in the water to make a good target)." Just curious, but are you sure about that? I am pretty sure of my source, although I am going off memory not facts in front of me. Just curious, not trying to be accusational.
 
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bunkerdestroyer    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat   12/28/2005 10:33:29 PM
what is: Target pratice?
 
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Jack Tarr    RE:Iranian missile boats and Ashm threat - TAC   12/29/2005 4:28:27 AM
TAC - Very interesting. I'm intrigued about what they are working on for the "Future Helicopter Program". I had thought (at the back of my mind) that they may go for a UAV as a replacement for Lynx (Like the Germans are doing for their Corvette Program). However, by calling it the "Future Helicopter Program" I'm assuming it will be a new Manned Helicopter.(?) Fitz/Galrahn - SM-1 Standard seems a very odd missile to attack a surface vessel with, when you have Harpoon at your disposal? (Although I know some SAMs can be used against surface targets, e.g Sea Dart) Also, we're not getting the Iraqi's and Iranians mixed up here, are we?
 
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