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Subject: ww2 Yamato vs Iowa class
capt soap    9/17/2005 12:55:11 PM
How would this fight turn out? the Iowa's 16 inch guns against the Yamato 18 guns? The iowa had radar,which one would sink the other 1 on 1.
 
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JFKY    Short Answer   6/25/2009 9:03:36 AM
 
What do you think, what outcome of next fights would be:
 
1)Yamato vs Iowa: Iowa- (Fire control and armour)
 
2)Bismarck vs Iowa: Iowa- (Fire Control and Armour)
 
3)Yamato vs Bismarck: Yamato-(don't know why except that Yamato had larger weapons, more SMASH and thicker armour)
 
Bottom-line: I think Bismarck AND Yamato are over-rated.
 
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Leech    Subject: ww2 Yamato vs Iowa class   6/26/2009 11:06:19 AM
Iowa had 16 inch guns, right, but they had same penetration power as Yamato's 18 inch guns; however, Iowa's armor could not withstand her own guns, which means that she also couldn't withstand Yamato's artillery. Also, Yamato's main guns had slightly longer range, and while Iowa could outrun Yamato, she has to be in his range in order to shoot at Yamato. And, concerning radar, Japanese equipped their most important surface units with it until 1944.
 
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Leech    Subject: ww2 Yamato vs Iowa class   6/26/2009 11:21:39 AM

 
What do you think, what outcome of next fights would be:

 

1)Yamato vs Iowa: Iowa- (Fire control and armour)

 

2)Bismarck vs Iowa: Iowa- (Fire Control and Armour)
 


3)Yamato vs Bismarck: Yamato-(don't know why except that Yamato had larger weapons, more SMASH and thicker armour)
 


Bottom-line: I think Bismarck AND Yamato are over-rated

Well, I think that Iowa is over-rated too. Here are some data about armor and weaponry:
IOWA:
Armament:

JFKY    Read the thread   6/26/2009 11:55:22 AM

Iowa had 16 inch guns, right, but they had same penetration power as Yamato's 18 inch guns; however, Iowa's armor could not withstand her own guns, which means that she also couldn't withstand Yamato's artillery. Also, Yamato's main guns had slightly longer range, and while Iowa could outrun Yamato, she has to be in his range in order to shoot at Yamato. And, concerning radar, Japanese equipped their most important surface units with it until 1944.
All radar is not the same, US radar and its attendant fire control was an order of magnitude greater than Japanese fire control....for accurate shooting rather Wiki range shooting, the US could begin to fire and get hits, quite likely, at 30K yards.  The Yamato was unlikely to get any hits beyond 25K yards.
Iowas armour ahd the capacity to decap AP rounds of GREAER than 18", menaing that the ability to penetrate deeply into the Iowa was limited.  Yamato was vulnerable to US 16" fire.

 
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JFKY    The Iowas   6/26/2009 12:05:55 PM
have been rated as the best OVERALL Battleships of WWII.  Check out Combinedfleet.com  The Germans scuttled the Bismarck because she was scrap metal going nowhere.....that's like saying because someone gave up, that his opponent in the boxing match didn't really win the match.  The reason for both was that the other side had triumphed already.
 
Bismarck was almost immobile, defenseless, and not firing back, because the ship had been pounded into scrap over the last few days....if the "fight" had continued the British WOULD have sunk her, the Germans simply saved the British time and barrel wear, plus the ordnance expense.  Had the Germans really wanted to make Brit's pay they'd have made them expend the shells, torpedoes and barrel wear to put Bismarck down...that's all that Bismarck could do for Volk, Reich, und Fuhrer by that point.
 
Bismarck was designed for a North Sea fight and built to resist flat fire at close ranges, relatively close ranges....She wasn't "all that." And had she met a North Carolina, much less an Iowa Class she'd have been pounded, even more rapidly, into scrap.   Bismarck gets her "fearsome reputation" from having fought a somewhat antiquated Battle Cruiser, HMS Hood, and Prince of Wales, a vessel that had not been properly shaken down, had builders technicians on-board during her baptism of fire and which had major gun malfunctions that limited her combat ability!  In short, Bismarck beat up an Old Granny and her Asthmatic Nephew, *WOW* that makes her a dangerous opponent.
 
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Leech       6/26/2009 12:40:37 PM
I don't think that British would sunk Bismarck-they were running low on ammo, and only one destroyer had 3 torpedoes left, and Bismarck survived lot more torpedoes without damage to main armor belt at all. However, she was immobile and defenseless, and British would probably try to take her to Britain for examination-she sunk "mighty Hood" and heavily damaged newest British battleship, HMS Prince of Wales, and survived heavy artillery fire and several torpedoes without damage to main armor belt (only her oil tanks, which were outside of the main armour belt got some holes) and armoured decks-and she would be returned to service, but under British flag, and Germans could not allow that to happen, and beacouse of that they sunk Bismarck themselves, rather than allowing her to be captured.
 
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Leech    Old Granny   6/26/2009 12:46:11 PM
That Old Granny was regarded as most powerful British ship and symbol of UK naval power, althought she had thin deck, which, in combination with Bismarck's precise targeting system (bismarck had very precise targeting system and was stable shooting platform) destroyed her.
 
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Leech       6/26/2009 12:50:32 PM
But I think that Montana, had she ever exited shipyards, would beat all of them out by very long way.
 
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JFKY    Leach   6/26/2009 1:27:01 PM
Hood may have been the SYMBOL of British Naval Power, to the General Public, but the RN knew she was:
1) Vulnerable and in need of rebuild; and
2) Clapped out and in need of extensive refit in 1939.
 
However, the press of naval needs prevented Hood from being either rebuilt or refitted....The British on that fateful May morning knew that Hood had serious weaknesses, and Adm Holland had planned to obviate them, but that plan failed, and even in the battle that took place Holland tried to minimize the risks that he and the RN knew existed in fighting the Hood with a battleship.
 
Bottom-line: as a SYMBOL HMS Hood was peerless, as a COMBAT UNIT, Hood was seriously compromised and the Royal Navy knew it.
 
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JFKY    The Montana's   6/26/2009 1:38:43 PM
Were deemed unnecessary...a North Carolina, outfitted with a 1943 eracontrol suite would have sunk Bismarck.  American radar and fire control outstripped EVERYONE in WWII.  As long as there was sea room to extend the fight ANY US Fast Battleship was going to give ANY Axis Battleship a terrible fight.
 
Please note what happened to Scharnhorst v. Duke of York...the Duke of York could fire blind and produce hits, Scharnhorst could not.  The result Scharnhorst was sunk and the Duke of York was not.
 
Had any of the fast US Battleships engaged Bismarck OR Tirpitz, in the open, they would have out ranged them and pounded them into scrap metal....due to great guns, great shells, and simply world-class fire control systems!  In the open, they could have been UNARMOURED and won, they simply could have held the range on their opponent and punched and punched, until the opponent sank...and that ignores the US' great armour.
 
Bottom-line: it wouldn't have taken a quad turret vessel like Montana to sink Bismarck....any of the US battle line built 1939-on, the triple turret 16" vessels (L/45 or L/50) would have defeated any of the German or Italian battleships, and probably the Yamato, too...
 
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