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Subject: CVF, what is happening exactly with them?, does anyone conclusively know?
JTR~~    1/14/2011 3:52:39 PM
At the moment i am at a loss at to knowing what is meant to be happening with the new CVF carriers for the Royal Navy. i know that the project has been given the green light to continue, and that both ships are to be built, but from here on in I’m lost. different places state different things, some sources say that one carrier will be in service while the other is reserved, some say that the second carrier will be used while the first is being refitted etc etc, others say that the second carrier will be immediately decommissioned, and some say that the second carrier might even be sold or immediately scrapped. Can anyone actually tell me conclusively what is meant to be happening?. Also with the budget was there any capability reductions specified?, i know that air compliment has been reduced, does anyone have any exact details on this aspect as well? Any information would be greatly appreciated; I am really hoping for the answer that Britain will be keeping both at hand. Also would you think that by only operating one carrier the Royal Navy will see a great loss in capability, or will even the one carrier be significant progress over the two smaller invincible class carriers?
 
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Armchair Private       1/21/2011 12:51:47 PM
h*tp://navy-matters.beedall.com/
 
Unlikely UK will ever field manned aircraft of off carriers again.
 
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Phaid       1/22/2011 7:03:07 AM
There's no such thing as "conclusively know" on this topic, because the UK MoD keeps changing their plans. 
 
The current plan of record is that both CVFs will be built.  HMS Queen Elizabeth will be completed as a helicopter carrier with no jet facilities, and will enter service in 2016. HMS Prince of Wales will be completed as a CATOBAR carrier with EMALS catapults and will be commissioned in 2019. When Prince of Wales enters service,  HMS Queen Elizabeth will be placed in ?extended readiness?, which really means mothballed, and eventually sold.  Seems kind of crazy to build such an expensive ship only to sell it 4 years later, no doubt at a huge loss, but apparently the construction contracts are such that canceling it would be even more expensive.
 
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heraldabc    An LPH is an LPH.   1/22/2011 7:32:40 AM

There's no such thing as "conclusively know" on this topic, because the UK MoD keeps changing their plans. 

 

The current plan of record is that both CVFs will be built.  HMS Queen Elizabeth will be completed as a helicopter carrier with no jet facilities, and will enter service in 2016. HMS Prince of Wales will be completed as a CATOBAR carrier with EMALS catapults and will be commissioned in 2019. When Prince of Wales enters service,  HMS Queen Elizabeth will be placed in ?extended readiness?, which really means mothballed, and eventually sold.  Seems kind of crazy to build such an expensive ship only to sell it 4 years later, no doubt at a huge loss, but apparently the construction contracts are such that canceling it would be even more expensive.


Buy it for the USN.. 
 
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JFKY    No thanx Herald   1/22/2011 12:05:49 PM
Non-standard engines, accomodations, and electronics...the refit costs would be too high.
 
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heraldabc       1/22/2011 12:11:28 PM

Non-standard engines, accomodations, and electronics...the refit costs would be too high.

Compared to a US new-build? Don't make me laugh. We could actually make that thing work as an aircraft carrier for what the new LHA would cost even with the purchase buy + the refit.
 
H.
 
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JFKY    You'd have to gut   1/22/2011 6:09:18 PM
it end from-end...the computers, the engines, the communications, the weapon systems, the combat information systems, most likely the crew quarters, the mission planning avionivcs, would all have to be re-done...steel is cheap Herald...the US would "buy" the cheapest part of the sytem, the hull....and have to bu y the most expensive parts, the innards.
 
You know that....not a wise idea.
 
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heraldabc       1/22/2011 9:40:10 PM

it end from-end...the computers, the engines, the communications, the weapon systems, the combat information systems, most likely the crew quarters, the mission planning avionivcs, would all have to be re-done...steel is cheap Herald...the US would "buy" the cheapest part of the sytem, the hull....and have to bu y the most expensive parts, the innards.

 

You know that....not a wise idea.

The engines are standard commercial grade (I would replace them with diesel/electrics) and most of the systems are US maintainable COTS and sustainable. Most of the  tech is US or NATO member derived.

We would actually have to fix this.
 
Flight deck up is doable. Even now we could fix it and take it off the UK's hands before they screw it up, like they did their subs when we rescued them last time. 
 
H.
 
 
 
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JFKY    Still all non-standard   1/23/2011 10:05:11 AM
I'm betting that though the Link16 links are standard, the systems that support the link are NOT USN standard, and the USN isn't likely to run the COTS systems.  You'd replace the ENGINES, really?  THAT"LL be cheap...
 
OK, Herald this is one of those ideas that you came up with in about 30 seconds and that now your ego won't let go. 
 
It's not a viable solution for the US.
 
It might be an option for INDIA, BUT does India need a Helicopter Carrier?  How much to convert the QE to a "Invincible"-type carrier?  Even then India might not buy it...does the QE fit into their plans?  Don't they want CVA or CVL's not LPH's?  And it might be cost prohibitive to convert...
 
Bottom-Line: ANOTHER Royal Navy/His/Her Majesty's Government C*ck-up...I agree with an earlier commenter, the RN will NEVER fly off a CV deck again...unless it's the CdG or a US hull.  Britian simply seems unable to produce the money, the will, and the affordable system to support a CV.  QE will be built and sold and PoW will NEVER be built....I'd be willing to bet USD 20 (2010 constant dollars), to any taker that this is what ultimately happens.
 
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heraldabc       1/23/2011 11:13:06 AM
1. The engines in question: are already in the US tech tree (Boeing 777 for one uses the core type) so why should that be a problem?
 
2. The electrical generation and service will have to be replaced, but that was screwed up anyway and will have to be redone, so what? 
 
Catapults, trap gear, elevators, plane tractors, handling tech for fuel and ammunition, who are you kidding? Made in  the USA is stamped on ALL that gear. Even the Chuckles has licensed US naval tech. The French just don't like to admit how much Newport News is in their defective bird farm. 
 
As I see it, the British carrier is more American than most people realize. 
 
The decision to Catobar her just makes for more American gear, not less.
 
H. 
     
 
 
 
 
 
 
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JFKY    We're talking the QE here   1/23/2011 6:07:15 PM
the QE is NOT going to be CATOBAR, according to Phaid...it is PoW that is to be CATOBAR.  QE is going to be a Helo Carrier.
 
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