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Subject: What is modern coastal defence (from surface forces)?
rayott34    7/24/2010 2:06:49 AM
For island/coastal nations that don't have a large navy or large air force, what options are there for coastal defenses? Are there land based rockets that can shoot at surface forces? All that I can think up would be SAM's and mines; but surely there is more.
 
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Hamilcar       7/24/2010 2:19:14 AM

For island/coastal nations that don't have a large navy or large air force, what options are there for coastal defenses? Are there land based rockets that can shoot at surface forces? All that I can think up would be SAM's and mines; but surely there is more.

Curious? Google anti-ship missile, and torpedoes and get your own answers.
 
H. 
 
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earlm       7/24/2010 4:35:49 PM
Antiship missiles can be mounted on trucks.  Artillery can be directed at ships.
 
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WarNerd       7/26/2010 5:53:53 AM

For island/coastal nations that don't have a large navy or large air force, what options are there for coastal defenses? Are there land based rockets that can shoot at surface forces? All that I can think up would be SAM's and mines; but surely there is more.

Depends on what you are trying to defend yourself from.  There is a world of difference between defending against small boat raiders like the Somali pirates and a task force + MEU.
A good sensor net is needed for a start, so that you know you are being attacked before they knock on the back door of your headquarters. 
 
Appropriate weaponry
For the pirates -- 1 or 2 patrol boats, say 50'-100' class armed primarily with autocannon in stabilized turrets and machine guns.  A couple of armed helicopters to shoot up their boats before they get to shore.  And a company of motorized infantry (trucks, cars, or maybe even motorcycles) with heavy weapons to back up an organized militia to counter attack if they get on shore. 
 
Against an MEU -- lots of white flags?  (Or pretty young women with flowers.)
 
In between it gets tricky.  You need to be powerful enough to discourage a potential attacker, not just piss him off.  Truck mounted anti-ship missiles can be effective, but unless you have a lot of them, and your opponents defenses are weak, it is going to be a numbers game of can you weaken him enough, fast enough, to prevent him from landing an overwhelming force.
 Good defense treaties with more powerful neighbors when the above fail and you need to take your country back.

 
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cheshirematt       7/27/2010 2:53:45 AM
Building on what WarNerd wrote,
 
When it comes to sensor nets/figuring out where an attack is coming from, I would never underestimate the value of some dude with a pair of binoculars and carrier pigeons. Any modern sensor or communications network can/will be jammed... but some dude with binoculars can spot anything approaching the beach long before he is spotted in turn, and his carrier pigeons cannot be intercepted or jammed with modern technology.
 
I'll also bring up SSKs - diesel electric submarines - since I haven't seen them mentioned. They're relatively cheap to own and operate, and extremely difficult to find and get rid of.
 
But mines are probably the best defense, they're the cheapest and easier way to keep someone/anyone from entering a particular area. And with modern technology, it should be possible to set up a decent remote-controlled system (like the US's XM-7), which are probably more effective than standard mines, and can be safely removed after the threat has passed.
 
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Juramentado       7/27/2010 9:49:43 AM
Observation using the Mk I Mod 0 eyeball is useful in some cases, but not for modern coast-watching. This isn't WW2 anymore. The defender, assuming he has enough combat power to more than bloody an attacker's nose (otherwise what's the point of resisting?), needs to trade space for time in order to blunt an invasion or incursion. That means OTH surveillance capability. If you're firing missiles over open sights and that's the first contact between forces, something went heavily wrong in your defense planning.
 
 
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cheshirematt       7/27/2010 12:27:20 PM

Observation using the Mk I Mod 0 eyeball is useful in some cases, but not for modern coast-watching. This isn't WW2 anymore. The defender, assuming he has enough combat power to more than bloody an attacker's nose (otherwise what's the point of resisting?), needs to trade space for time in order to blunt an invasion or incursion. That means OTH surveillance capability. If you're firing missiles over open sights and that's the first contact between forces, something went heavily wrong in your defense planning.

I'm  not suggesting that's the ONLY form of reconnaissance to use, certainly it'd be a terrible way to aim a 300-mile cruise missile, but I'd still like to have something reliable (if limited) after after the UAVs/recon planes have been shot down, the patrol boats sunk, the power knocked out, and the radios jammed.
 
I figure part of good defense planning is having a backup plan once everything else goes wrong :-).
 
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JFKY    I know you're not serious...   7/27/2010 1:20:31 PM
about the carrier pigeon thing.  After the Patrol A/c, and the UAV's are knocked down and the power is off and the C4I net is down....unless you're facing a medieval invasion...YOU'VE LOST.  OK, your best "back up plan" is surrender in that case.
 
Because once your opponent has secured that kind of command and control advantage, all you are going to do is lose and die, spectacularly.  Think France 1940.  You simply don't have a "defense plan" after that....you have a Welcome Ashore Our New Overlords Day Plan...you have a retreat and prepare for Guerrilla Warfare Plan...but you're not going to fight and win without modern reconnaissance and communications.  Ask Saddam Hussein.
 
So all this stuff about when "have something reliable (if limited) after the UAVs/recon planes have been shot down, the patrol boats sunk, the power knocked out, and the radios jammed."  Is just that pretty much "stuff."  It's like saying you'll have a back-up plan for your TV-Internet system for when there's no power, and no transmitters, and the servers are down...you don't have a multi-media company, and in the 24 hour news cycle world you don't have anything...so the answer is NOT having carrier pigeons or hand presses, but making sure that the sensors are stealthy, the communications hardened and that you have a robust and redundant command and control system.
 
Mines...those are an EXCELLANT plan....since 1945, IIRC, mines have inflicted about half of all the damage inflicted upon the USN.  And they don't have to be super-hi-tech "Ninja" mines.   The most successful and useful mine ever is the M-08 mine, made by the TSAR!  It's a hertz horn mine, been used in WWI, WWII, Korea, and the Persian Gulf...successfully,  for the last 100 years.  Lay hundreds, if not thousands of these mines....release them into the ocean as free floating mines...lay some thousands of "shu" mines on the beaches, nothing more than some explosive and wood, with a detonating device...you will throw your opponent into chaos!  Add in some 150mm artillery and some armour and you have the makings of a defense...throw in some UAV's, radar, and some AShM's and you are well on your way to making a formidable defense for your coast line.
 
One last point, what "works" depends on hour battlefield...if your battlefield is Sweden or France, you're going to need an Army and an Air Force to "defend", because you can't "defend" that coastline, the enemy WILL get ashore, you need to be able to mass and counter-attack.  If you're defending Okinawa or Iwo Jima, you need a lot less air power and a whole lot more shovels, you can't defend at the water-line, but have to prepare a defense-in-depth.  Lay your mines at sea, lay your mines on the beaches, zero your weapons, inland, onto the beaches, and create a series of inter-linking defensive positions...you won't win, more than likely, but you sure will hurt the other guy.
 
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cheshirematt       7/27/2010 2:07:01 PM
JFKY,
 
Point taken, I surrender :-).
 
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AThousandYoung       7/27/2010 2:25:06 PM
OK.  Here's an example nation.
 
You are a warlord who is able to establish firm control over mainland Somalia.  Your new nation is impoverished.  How do you defend your extensive coast? Diplomacy and your personal troops maintain the land borders.
 
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JFKY    Answer:   7/27/2010 2:36:49 PM
 
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