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Subject: Top Ten Warships of All Time- Miltary Channel
buzzard    5/30/2006 10:54:25 AM
OK, yesterday I caught part of this show on the Military Channel. It had, IMO a rather odd set of picks for the top ships in history. I really don't quite get how they made their evaluations. 1 Iowa Class battleships 2 Nimitz Carriers 3 Aegis Cruisers 4 Queen Elizabeth Battleships 5 Fletcher Destroyers 6 North Caroina Class 7 Essex Class carriers 8 Bismark 9 Graf Spee 10 Hood (!?!) Now I'm not sure of the order (precisely, though I know 1-4 are correct), and maybe they limited things to the 20th century (which seems like the only way this list could be excusable). I have to ask, what the hell were they thinking? The Hood did not even vaguely deserve to be on the list other than due to noteriety. The Bismark and Graf Spee were pretty much meaningless in effect. Why are there no submarines even on the list? So, given this rather strange list we are presented with, what would your choices be. For the sake of argument, let's limit things to 20th century. Since I chose this forum choice, why don't we stick to surface ships at that. buzzard
 
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Yimmy    RE:Okay... I'll bite-Yimmy   5/30/2006 5:03:18 PM
Yeah, I think HMS Vanguard was meant to have 9 x 16 inch guns also, while some similar designs of Super Battleships had 12 x 16 inch guns! As you said though, the guns on her in the end were renovated 15 inch guns, with improved elevation. She probably was undergunned, however was a very well protected ship, and a good balance over all. Plus, she challenges HMS Hood in the looks department.
 
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MadRat    The topic heading is misleading IMO   5/30/2006 8:59:42 PM
I'd have to think the top ten most powerful ships would be a little more modern than battleships. If you are aiming for difference makers then the Monitor definitely should of made it in the list. The first steam powered warship should of made it, too. The first nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine that fired from the depths. Etc. etc. etc.
 
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MadRat    Interwar-WW2 ships in the list   5/30/2006 9:13:55 PM
I'd almost have to go with categories rather than specific ships. When it gets down to it, the Richelieu could of taken the spot that belongs to the Bismarck. Both were extremely fast for their time and well gunned. Both only put armor where it counted and left soft spots all over where realistically practical to shave weight. The Bismarck was simply a big battle-cruiser - hardly revolutionary really - while the Richelieu was a true revolution in Battleship design. The Richelieu was unique in its all or nothing armor face and would of presented a relatively small silhouette while simultaneously able to fire full broadsides up to 250 degrees of arc. What other battleship could charge headon and aim its full suite - let alone eight 15-inchers - while doing so?
 
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Librarian    Top ten warships of all time?   5/30/2006 10:03:18 PM
The topic begs the question, greatest at what? One could argue that the Flower Class corvettes were a great class, doing a job they really weren't designed for reasonably well and at low cost. Moving up the scale, the WWII Tribal Destroyer class were among the finest gun destroyers ever. Larger still, the escort carrier were very useful at convoy protection. While any of the Iowa class could beat it easily, HMS Warspite put in stirling service, probably seeing more action than all 4 Iowas combined (if you put aside AA events). Greatest at what? I wonder what the criteria of that program was. From the list, it would appear submarines weren't even considered. It also comes across a mite USN happy. I would have added a mention of the British Light Fleet carriers as well.
 
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Weasel    RE:Top ten warships of all time?   5/30/2006 10:52:19 PM
do you eat plain pop corn or go with the caramel flavored stuff EW3? my 2c. I would go with significance e.g. the first CV equipped with a steam catapult. Without that little invention we would not be where we are today. Dreadnaught was inspired by the japanese victory over the russians. Does that make her significant or are the ships in the actual battle more significant? She certainly set the tone until the carrier came along. I can think of a significant merchant vessel. The old MV Chitral, renamed Matilda Bay. The first container ship to come out of Ise Wan Where the Yamoto was built and kick started the modern Japanese Ship building industry, not to mention the other Japanese heavy industries, you know, like building Hondas and such. None of that would have been possible if the Yamoto and Musashi had not been built. Yards, infrastructure and metallurgy know how. Bit bizarre really when you think about it, but those two capital ships have a significant nation building legacy that not many people take into account. And now here we are fighting to keep 2 submarine yards open and people talking about the need for "new" energy reactors to solve our electricity problems. cheers W
 
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EW3    RE:Top ten warships of all time?   5/30/2006 11:09:45 PM
Popcorn, get your popcorn here! In the US carmel popcorn usually comes with nuts, just to make them more decadent. I prefer the plain slightly salty variety as it matches well with cold beer. ;) Now carmel corn might go better with Cognac.
 
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Galrahn    RE:Top Ten Warships of All Time- Miltary Channel   5/30/2006 11:46:51 PM
I have seen that eqisode before. The criteria was: Fear Factor or Reputation in its era Innovation Service Life Firepower Armor/Ability to take damage The list was limited to surface ships since 1900, and tended to focus on ships that have partisipated in some sort of combat action. Personally, I would replace the HMS Hood with the CV Invincible class, but other than that, I don't really have a problem with the list. It wouldn't be my list, but based on the criteria it is as good as any. My argument for the CV Invincible class over the Hood is simple. The Hood destroyed the French fleet at port, while the CV Invincible established the VSTOL carrier, a major change in aviation at sea, and additionally has fought in a number of wars from the Falklands to the Gulf War to Kosovo to OEF and OIF today. I take issue with whomever said the Graf Spee wasn't a threat. If I remember correctly, at its time the Graf Spee was the fastest big gun ship of its day. During a time when speed and firepower were the most important criteria for a ship, that is no small thing. I don't know if it is one of the top 10 ships of all time, but it was certainly one of the top 5 ships of WWII.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Top Ten Warships of All Time- Miltary Channel   5/31/2006 11:09:56 AM
"The Bismarck was simply a big battle-cruiser" Well, the Bismark actually had a very poor armour layout. Its design dated to WWI principles, since German designers had no inter-war Battleship designs to tinker with.
 
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xylene    RE:Top Ten Warships of All Time- Miltary Channel   5/31/2006 11:51:35 AM
1) USS Missouri (Iowa class battleships) 2) USS Enterprise (1st nuclear supercarrier) 3) Typhoon class submarine 4) Ohio class SSBN 5) Yamato 6) HMS Dreadnaught 7) HMS Warrior 8) Monitor 9) HMS Victory 10) Spanish galleon
 
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buzzard    RE:Top Ten Warships of All Time- Miltary Channel   5/31/2006 12:09:34 PM
I still don't understand the fondness for such ships as the Yamato and Hood. I really don't see the measure by which these ships can be seen as successes. The Yamato really didn't accomplish much in combat other than shelling a few escort carriers. I'd say it probably had potential, but it was certainly not realized. It was the biggest battleship ever built, but that's rather akin to being the biggest dinosaur when the asteroid hit. There wasn't a whole lot of point. Then there's the Hood. It's combat experience involves minor skirmishes, sinking a bunch of French Warships which were sitting in harbor that were not firing back, and then getting sunk rather quickly by the Bismark. Excuse me if I don't see what makes it worthy of being a capable warship on this list. buzzard
 
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