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Subject: ROKN Patrol Corvette sucken by DPRK torpedo boat
YelliChink    3/26/2010 12:10:07 PM
Just happened 2150 Korean local time. Chinese reports say that it was DPRK torpedo boat. The ROKN corvette sunk is probably a 1200t PCC. I can't read Korean so I am not sure which one exactly. At this moment, 59 out of 104 crew have been saved so far. Best wishes to the still missing ones and condolence to families of lost sailors.
 
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SantaClaws       4/15/2010 8:47:08 AM
I don't recall anyone asking what else could separate a ship in half and you just posted the video. Also, I could post a video of a ship being broken in half by  a giant shark biting it just to prove a point, but I didn't because such a video (like the Titanic) is irrelevant to the case at hand.
 
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pti       4/15/2010 9:19:41 AM

Santa Claws you got to remember Darth is Fobbit Ninja and Walt extraordinare. Dont doubt his "expertise".

 
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jhpigott       4/15/2010 9:26:02 AM
Has anybody here seen the footage they are referring to in this article?  I would think there would be sufficient photographic evidence to narrow dow possible causes . . .
 
- - - - - - - - - -
 
S. Korea raises sunken naval ship, bodies recovered


SEOUL, April 15 (Yonhap) -- South Korea retrieved a sunken naval ship and the bodies of missing sailors trapped inside Thursday as investigators examined the wreckage for clues as to what caused the vessel to break in half and sink near the sea border with North Korea.

The retrieval marked the culmination of a tragedy that has been gripping South Korea since the 1,200-ton corvette Cheonan mysteriously went down on March 26 near the scene of three bloody skirmishes with the communist North, most recently in November.


On Thursday, a giant crane raised the gray, tattered stern of the Cheonan from the sea and placed it on a barge in nationally televised operations. The bodies of at least 25 missing sailors, mostly in their 20s, were later recovered from it.

Before Thursday's operations, 44 sailors had been listed as missing, two were found dead and 58 others had been rescued.

TV footage showed workers on the deck moving what appeared to be bodies wrapped in white cloth. Recovered bodies will be airlifted by helicopter to a naval base in Pyeongtaek, officials said.

President Lee Myung-bak expressed sadness over the deaths.

"It is very regrettable, as I had not let go of a string of hope that there will be even a single survivor," Lee said at an emergency meeting of senior secretaries, according to his spokesman, Lee Dong-kwan.

Lee also stressed the importance of thorough investigation into the cause of the sinking.

"(The government) should gain trust from the people and the international community through thorough and scientific verification," he said, according to the spokesman.

TV footage showed that a side of the ship had been severely damaged, an indication that it might have been struck by an external shock. The ship's severed side was wrapped with a net to keep objects inside from falling out.

After the wreckage landed on the barge, 38 civilian and military investigators, including two U.S. experts, began examining the broken ship, the ministry said. Details of their findings were not immediately available.

Survivors say a powerful explosion rocked the vessel. South Korean officials have talked about a torpedo or sea mine attack as possible causes, along with other potential factors, such as an internal explosion or "metal fatigue" in the ship.

But officials have been cautious about openly suggesting Pyongyang's involvement, with no concrete proof found yet to support such speculation.

North Korea's state media outlets have remained silent on the incident.

International experts -- eight from the United States and three from Australia -- have arrived in South Korea to help with investigations into the sinking, as Seoul tries to ensure transparency and objectivity in the probe.

Four experts from Sweden are also expected to join the probe as early as this weekend.

Ahead of the salvage operations, family members of some of the missing sailors and surviving shipmates held a ceremony aboard a warship to pray that all the missing soldiers are found.

The navy plans to move the wreckage to the Pyeongtaek naval base for investigation.

In Washington, a senior South Korean official said that efforts to resume international talks on North Korea's nuclear programs could suffer a setback if Pyongyang is found to have been involved in the sinking.

"We've not yet fixed a concrete game plan, but we may face criticism from the media if we reopen the talks after North Korea's involvement is confirmed," the official said, asking anonymity.

Kurt Campbell, a senior U.S. State Department official, said Washington and Seoul are in full coordination.

"We want to be very clear that there is a complete agreement between South Korea and the United States about next steps if there are to be next steps given recent developments," Campbell told reporters, according to the AFP.

South and North Korea still remain technically at war after the 1950-53 Korean War ended in a truce, not a peace treaty.

North Korea does not recognize the western sea border, drawn by the United Nations at the end of the conflict. Pyongyang claims the line should be redrawn further south, and the dispute has led to the three naval skirmishes in 1999, 2002 and 2009.
 
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YelliChink       4/15/2010 11:07:02 AM
 
photos of salvaged stern parts. Please use Internet Explorer on the link.
 
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Hamilcar       4/15/2010 11:34:34 AM
 
Holy.......
 
There are just no words.....


H.
 
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Reactive       4/15/2010 11:35:15 AM




The secondary point being that casing is presumably needed to classify a torpedo to a known weapon in the NK inventory? or do you think this is already evident from what is already known?

 

I'm of the view that you wouldn't exclude something just because its not on a publicly available inventory


UK, US, USSR and France all used to sleight of hand on equipment during the halcyon days of the cold war....




Yes, but that's not quite what I meant, what I was getting at is that although it's blantantly obvious that it's NK from circumstantial and motive-based evidence, it's not proven unless there's firm data that leads to NK and NK only, China for one will drag its heels if there are any "inconclusive" or "unproven" claims made, and for that reason I would at least imagine they'll want to go further than proving a torpedo, and actually point to the specific model used. I have very little doubt that ROK has good intel on what torpedos the North is equipped with given the flapping mouths in the NK navy, even if it's not in the PD. I.e. The fact that a torpedo is proven to have sunk the Cheonan does not conclusively prove it to have been NK.
 
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VelocityVector       4/15/2010 7:22:01 PM

To those who may know and also be in a position to disclose the information publicly, what size and composition warhead would you "guesstimate" was involved with the Cheonan incident?  Diameter?  TIA.

v^2

 
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Hamilcar    Crossposted.   4/16/2010 4:56:45 PM
 
 
Hamilcar    This is going to be UGLY.   4/16/2010 3:54:48 PM
Nothing screams failure like appeasement. We shall see some evil results if these terror weapons are used by other nut-jobs as one would expect, and as one suspects they might have been:

 
=======================================================
 
As GF will remark, these tin tubs are not a threat if you expect them, bur if not then they get their fitst and only shot, (solve the problem in the torpedo)
 
We've sort of seen what I think might be a test run for a terrorist act at sea.
 
What would you do here?
 
http://www.conapro.gr/build4big.JPG" height="420" width="521" />
     
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YGLQQZTHoU0/SF0Teb6FF1I/AAAAAAAADMo/ZkiLaPLon7k/s400/tanker_al_basrah.JPG" height="312" width="521" />
 
Photo 1 is of the Al Jiddah facility off Saudi Arabia's east coast in the Persian Gulf.
 
Photo 2 is of the Al Basrah facility off the coast of Iraq.
 
The Ghadir doesn't have the range, but it still can swim in a channel that can handle a 100,000 DWT tanker in the deep  channel. Can you say BOOM?
 
 
A smart enemy would use a swimmer delivery vehicle and  Quds maniacs to wreck the terminals, but here we discuss nutjobs more interested in a propaganda kill that plays well in the press.
 
Just like the DPRK.

H.
 
 
 
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VelocityVector       4/16/2010 7:22:49 PM

nutjobs more interested in a propaganda kill that plays well in the press.
Just like the DPRK.

I believe Cheonan-type events can hold more than propaganda or market valuation potential.  Competent military and political leaders might actually lose their careers as a result.  Resources otherwise deployable might get diverted thus weakening the defenses for other contingencies.  It can be cool calculation by a smart opposition who only needs to succeed now and then for the desired effects to be achieved.  You get the other guy to dance to your tune.  0.02

v^2

 
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Hamilcar       4/17/2010 12:53:07 PM

nutjobs more interested in a propaganda kill that plays well in the press.

Just like the DPRK.


I believe Cheonan-type events can hold more than propaganda or market valuation potential.  Competent military and political leaders might actually lose their careers as a result.  Resources otherwise deployable might get diverted thus weakening the defenses for other contingencies.  It can be cool calculation by a smart opposition who only needs to succeed now and then for the desired effects to be achieved.  You get the other guy to dance to your tune.  0.02


v^2


 
 I respectfully disagree. The same defenses we use for ASW, general submarine defense, and anchorage security are applicable no matter what the mini-sub stunt pulled to send a terrorist message. Those resources have to be allocated anyway as part of a navy's routine war mission.
 
What I see as an cross applicable issue is a new emphasis on UCSVs to extend our sensor reach and a need to be more pro-active in prosecutions to keep "pirates" out of business.
 
We need to stop coddling these idiots whether they are smugglers in our MEZs or state actors. Caught in a sub or fishing boat in our maritime economic zone and you are not one of ours with a filed float plan?  Its time for live fire exercise on a maneuvering target.
 
http://www.youtube.com/v/V4TCqcWkDM0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"> http://www.youtube.com/v/V4TCqcWkDM0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">
 
 
H.
   
PS. I know its just a sinkex  with a confiscated DPRK freighter, but I would not have a heartburn if it was a  high seas violator caught at sea under weigh that failed to answer a stop and search.
 
 
 
 
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