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Subject: ROKN Patrol Corvette sucken by DPRK torpedo boat
YelliChink    3/26/2010 12:10:07 PM
Just happened 2150 Korean local time. Chinese reports say that it was DPRK torpedo boat. The ROKN corvette sunk is probably a 1200t PCC. I can't read Korean so I am not sure which one exactly. At this moment, 59 out of 104 crew have been saved so far. Best wishes to the still missing ones and condolence to families of lost sailors.
 
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DarthAmerica    @SantaClaws   4/4/2010 11:45:51 PM
Is that the best you can do is to try and provoke yet another argument? If you think something I said is "ignorant", prove it. Then we can debate the matter and who's ignorant will be obvious. So far, the authorities have echoed almost every theory under the sun as to a cause. So all of this is speculation no matter how you look at it. Based on that you are hardly in a position to call anybody here ignorant. In fact, one of the two scenarios currently being floated is the mine theory! Something you insisted to be impossible. So back off and chill out.

-DA 
 
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Hamilcar    Take it easy, SC.   4/4/2010 11:45:55 PM
Don't let it get to you. Just ignore the nonsense, and let's deal with the evidence. Right now TWO NAVAL EXPERTS I respect, told me that my depth charge theory has very serious holes in it, and I should look at the bottom mine or some kind of under-keel water hammer effect as the causal effect. They agreed with me that a torpedo was as yet unproven, but of the three hypothesis that are plausible that involve the water hammer effect the bottom mine was the most plausible, the depth charge the least plausible, and a torpedo as somewhere in between. 
 
They laughed when I suggested reef collision or grounding or object collision. They pointed out that reported forward motion only stopped after an EXPLOSION and the engines, located mid-ship stopped. Nobody mentioned a collision event in ANY account prior to the explosion. In a vessel that small you would notice when you hit a sandbar or when you grounded in such a way that the ship would roll over and snap. You would sort of ride up and all non-secured stowables, well those would fly everywhere. That includes crew as flung objects. Plus we know that there were 46 dead. A grounding should have far more survivors. The explosion mechanism is the KICKER.
 
What its worth, I do not advocate hostile act as cause until we are sure.
 
====================================================
 
 
Next Phase of the Cheonan?s Salvage
http://english.donga.com/img/box03_bg.gif" height="22">http://english.donga.com/img/e_listen.gif" width="78" height="22" alt="" />http://english.donga.com/img/listen_M.gif" alt="Listen" width="22" border="0" height="22" hspace="3" />http://english.donga.com/img/listen_Won.gif" alt="Listen" width="22" border="0" height="22" />
APRIL 05, 2010 03:03 http://english.donga.com/image/kor-text.gif" border="0" alt="" />
After the body of Senior Chief Petty Officer Nam Ki-hoon, a serviceman who was aboard the sunken naval vessel Cheonan, was recovered Saturday, the families of the 45 other missing crewmen asked that the Navy stop searching for survivors. The decision came after the deaths of a senior naval diver and the crewmen of a private fishing boat that participated in the rescue operations. The families did not want others to risk their lives to save the missing, allowing the next phase of salvaging the sunken ship to proceed.

Saturday, the eighth day after the Cheonan sank, was a day of despair and pain for the families of the missing. Those who held on to the slim belief of a miracle seemed to give up hope after Nam?s body was confirmed. How can their pain and sorrow be consoled?

The funeral for Han Joo-ho, the naval diver who died searching for the missing crewmen, was held the same day Nam?s death was confirmed. More than 10,000 mourners attended the ceremony amid a military song echoing at his mortuary and naval bases across the country.

The soldiers who sacrificed their lives for the country are Korea?s true heroes. The nation and people should never forget their precious sacrifices.

The missing sailors locked in the sunken ship served their country in the prime of their lives, ranging from their late teens to their early 20s. Despite their families? hope of their safe return, no answer has been heard from the pitch-dark seawater. The stories of their families are heartbreaking. The mother of one of the missing soldiers had a letter to her son returned to her unopened, while a father of another celebrated his son?s bir

 
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SantaClaws       4/5/2010 12:24:32 AM
I already proved a lot of things you said wrong, ie. the captor idea; the titanic theory. The explosion before the ship splitting should have been a common sense answer for the titanic one. The huge ships patrolling the area in all the photos linked here should have told you that the Chonan didn't ground on anything, another common sense deduction your "expertise" missed. For someone who is an expert you really don't know a lot. Just because a newspaper or so called "expert" throws out an idea doesn't make what they say credible. I've read newspapers that said a torpedo wasn't possible because it would have been detected on radar. I've seen you come here and claim experts are discussing a possible titanic scenario. I suspect their expertise is probably at the same level of yours.
 
Then you have the nerve to claim you are an "expert" despite all the wrong information you have spouted. The arrogance of your post, especially claiming you are near infallible is mind boggling. If we are proven right and it is purely based on "luck", is it fair for me to claim that you were wrong purely based on stupidity?
 
The N Koreans possess only contact moored mines to our knowledge. For one to have done that to the Chonan it would have had to been beneath the ship which means it was moored below the surface and detonated magnetically. That is highly implausible.
Is that the best you can do is to try and provoke yet another argument? If you think something I said is "ignorant", prove it. Then we can debate the matter and who's ignorant will be obvious. So far, the authorities have echoed almost every theory under the sun as to a cause. So all of this is speculation no matter how you look at it. Based on that you are hardly in a position to call anybody here ignorant. In fact, one of the two scenarios currently being floated is the mine theory! Something you insisted to be impossible. So back off and chill out.




-DA 

 
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Hamilcar       4/5/2010 1:25:42 AM
 
I suggest the "expert" read it, because most of what he wrote was garbage
 
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DarthAmerica       4/5/2010 2:56:48 AM


 

I suggest the "expert" read it, because most of what he wrote was garbage


I suggest you cease the ad hominem and sarcasm. It's a poor substitute for knowledge which if you had any that could contradict what I said you wouldn't need the chip on your shoulder. Insulting and linking FAS with ZERO relevant context simply reinforces that fact. That's how you made the mistake of assuming the MK 38 Mod 1 was stabilized. But then again this is your M.O. so what's new? You'll get steadily worse until you get banned again. SSDD. Of course you could always try to actually explain what in particular you disagree with and then we could debate. Maybe that's asking too much..,lol

-DA 
 
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Hamilcar    It is a lesson as yto how mine actually work.   4/5/2010 4:01:09 AM
Here is a hint, "expert". Check the current flow south of Jangsam Cape and then reread the FAS article written by true  "experts" in subject. We already know that you don't even know how American mines work, weren't aware of what Chinese mines were available, or had a clue as to what mine damage would actually do, but dig that hole.
 
I've long since concluded that a person can't change Gixxxer, no matter how many "reformations" and "re-inventions" he tries. You are still the same, as you were here:
 
   
Thank God the US Navy didn't listen to "experts" like you!

Never occurred to you that if you hadn't been debating a delusional truck driver, but instead a Russian who knew physics and rocketry that he would tear you to bits on the nonsense you spouted? 
 
BACKFIRES with KITCHENS were a deadly credible threat. They could be stopped, but the Tomcat alone wouldn't do it, not even with its over-rated bomber-killer Phoenix missiles. It, the Phoenix, was only about 66% effective in TESTS. But you knew this, right? 
 
H. 
 
 
 

 
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DarthAmerica       4/5/2010 10:44:12 AM

Here is a hint, "expert". Check the current flow south of Jangsam Cape and then reread the FAS article written by true  "experts" in subject. We already know that you don't even know how American mines work, weren't aware of what Chinese mines were available, or had a clue as to what mine damage would actually do, but dig that hole.

Please. I've forgotten more things about mines that you know. And again, your lying! I told you about Chinese mines in this thread. I told you what's available. It's laughable to me that you think you have any clue about this subject but enjoy the delusion.

I've long since concluded that a person can't change Gixxxer, no matter how many "reformations" and "re-inventions" he tries. You are still the same, as you were here:


    Thank God the US Navy didn't listen to "experts" like you! 


Never occurred to you that if you hadn't been debating a delusional truck driver, but instead a Russian who knew physics and rocketry that he would tear you to bits on the nonsense you spouted? 

BACKFIRES with KITCHENS were a deadly credible threat. They could be stopped, but the Tomcat alone wouldn't do it, not even with its over-rated bomber-killer Phoenix missiles. It, the Phoenix, was only about 66% effective in TESTS. But you knew this, right? 
H.  


Again, another one of your lies and silly strawman arguments having nothing to do with the thread topic. Pathetic...

-DA 

 


 




 
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VelocityVector    Rescue Divers Believe the Cheonan Was Hit from Below   4/5/2010 10:51:10 AM

Observation from Navy divers appears to support theories that the corvette Cheonan may have been dealt a heavy blow to its underside by a torpedo before it sank.

Divers said structures at the rear of the Cheonan were bent as if they had received a strong blow from beneath. The comments also give weight to theories that a "bubble jet effect" had caused the Cheonan to sink, referring to an intense shock wave and high-pressure bubbles that may have caused the vessel to split in half.

But visibility on the sea floor was extremely poor, allowing divers to see barely 30 cm. They ventured forward while closely observing the severed section so it is difficult to say exactly where, but the aluminum structure above the chief petty officer's mess was bent upwards as if due to shock from beneath.

The body of Senior Chief Petty Officer Nam Ki-hoon was found lodged inside the aluminum structure on the ceiling of the mess hall. Only the upper structure was bent upward, divers said, adding that it was difficult to determine how far the metal had been bent. A military spokesman said, "Those signs point to the vessel suffering from a strong blow from below."

h**p://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/05/2010040500841.html

v^2

 
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Hamilcar       4/5/2010 1:36:54 PM




Here is a hint, "expert". Check the current flow south of Jangsam Cape and then reread the FAS article written by true  "experts" in subject. We already know that you don't even know how American mines work, weren't aware of what Chinese mines were available, or had a clue as to what mine damage would actually do, but dig that hole.



Please. I've forgotten more things about mines that you know. And again, your lying! I told you about Chinese mines in this thread. I told you what's available. It's laughable to me that you think you have any clue about this subject but enjoy the delusion.



I've long since concluded that a person can't change Gixxxer, no matter how many "reformations" and "re-inventions" he tries. You are still the same, as you were here:







    Thank God the US Navy didn't listen to "experts" like you! 








Never occurred to you that if you hadn't been debating a delusional truck driver, but instead a Russian who knew physics and rocketry that he would tear you to bits on the nonsense you spouted? 




BACKFIRES with KITCHENS were a deadly credible threat. They could be stopped, but the Tomcat alone wouldn't do it, not even with its over-rated bomber-killer Phoenix missiles. It, the Phoenix, was only about 66% effective in TESTS. But you knew this, right? 

H.  









Again, another one of your lies and silly strawman arguments having nothing to do with the thread topic. Pathetic...




-DA 





 






 











Do you believe the arrogant CHUTZPAH and distortions of this one?

Who identified and described the CHEN (sinker) family of mines, here? I DID.

I don't believe the absolutely insane statements I underlined here.
 
And he called me a liar on top of it, AGAIN?
 
I protest this most vehemently! I know I can't do anything about it, but someone can.
 
H.
 
 
 

 
 
 
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Hamilcar       4/5/2010 1:44:38 PM

Observation from Navy divers appears to support theories that the corvette Cheonan may have been dealt a heavy blow to its underside by a torpedo before it sank.


Divers said structures at the rear of the Cheonan were bent as if they had received a strong blow from beneath. The comments also give weight to theories that a "bubble jet effect" had caused the Cheonan to sink, referring to an intense shock wave and high-pressure bubbles that may have caused the vessel to split in half.


But visibility on the sea floor was extremely poor, allowing divers to see barely 30 cm. They ventured forward while closely observing the severed section so it is difficult to say exactly where, but the aluminum structure above the chief petty officer's mess was bent upwards as if due to shock from beneath.


The body of Senior Chief Petty Officer Nam Ki-hoon was found lodged inside the aluminum structure on the ceiling of the mess hall. Only the upper structure was bent upward, divers said, adding that it was difficult to determine how far the metal had been bent. A military spokesman said, "Those signs point to the vessel suffering from a strong blow from below."


h**p://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/04/05/2010040500841.html


v^2


Okay we have a failure mechanism identified, I think. That rules out the fantasies that those who said collision, grounding or explosion of on-board ordnance they suggested as hypothesis-all which most of us who do know what we discuss, rejected immediately as soon as we had sufficient evidence of the hull snap and separation.
 
This does not rule out the bottom mine, yet. It does still present the same torpedo problems as to times and methods. Depth charge is less viable. Almost rules out accident too.
 
H.
 
 
 
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