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Subject: Any way to stop standoff JDARMS?
Question    12/1/2003 9:50:33 AM
Okay im not sure if the spelling is correct,but it should be standoff JDARMS.I think.Is there any ground-based air defence that can stop an aircraft from launching a JDARM?Im not talking about anti-missles,i mean something to stop the aircraft from launching it.Is there any SAM or stuff like that,that can stop fighters from getting into range and doing serious damage with those JDARMs?
 
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Thomas    RE:Any way to stop standoff JDARMS?   1/21/2004 5:01:34 AM
The interesting point in this discussion is that PGM's are NOT invulnerable. The main difference is that AAA is now going to shoot at the bombs and not aircraft, as they are out of range.
 
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gf0012-aust    Any way to stop standoff JDARMS? - Thomas   1/21/2004 5:05:29 AM
A decent fire control system and Goalkeeper or Phalanx becomes a credible response capability - and far more economical to use than short throw missiles..
 
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Thomas    RE:Any way to stop standoff JDARMS? - Thomas   1/21/2004 8:01:44 AM
Are goalkeeper and phalanx lorry mounted these days?? An old fashioned 40mm with Flycatcher should not be dispised. The real difficulty is the advance warning so the crew will be at their guns in time and the guns swung into the right direction.
 
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gf0012-aust    Any way to stop standoff JDARMS? - Thomas   1/21/2004 8:31:37 AM
a goalkeeper mounted on a truck would add a whole new definition and impact to the word "technical". it would certainly make the somali and afghani "technicals" look a little inadequate.
 
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hybrid    RE:Any way to stop standoff JDARMS? - Thomas   1/22/2004 3:37:14 AM
"Terrain interrupts the beams. Therefore, radar is considered ineffective below a given altitude." Unless you are above the terrain that is JSTARS. UCAVs like Darkstar II, Global Hawk, future versions of Predator, aerial surveillance aerostats and even current satellites that are equipped with SAR (Synthetic Aperature Radar) and highly developed FLIR/SLIR/DLIR (Downward looking, yes there is such a variant, Infrared systems) can track a missile launch or vector. As these systems get more and more sophisticated the response time gets larger and larger. Course the other point is who operates these kinds of systems outside of the US?
 
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SYSOP1    To the No NAME Poster FROM SYSOPS   1/22/2004 4:17:32 AM
..In the mean time, you ignorant half wit, read my full post on a given subject before commenting, and maybe you can appreciate the nature of my argument. Plus, it saves me the time of having to repeat myself for some arrogant childs benefit. P.S. What I find most ironic is that you justify my arguments regarding cruise missiles with your own comments regarding Tornado''s flying low to avoid radar lock. Do you have any clue what your wailing about, or do you look for opportunities to make an ass of yourself... The only one who has taken the opportunity to make an ass out of themselves and look ignorant is you. That, and any other petulant childish outbursts on your anonymous part on these boards will see your permanent removal. SysOps - is there anything unclear about this to you?
 
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Mark F    Patriot   1/22/2004 6:45:38 AM
Patriot was quite able to see Scud's in ODS - and hit them. This is well documented. Patriot was however, poorly equipped to actually destroy them which is something of a separate issue. No SCUDS were fired during the most recent operations in Iraq BTW so no, I was most definately not referring to that.
 
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Thomas    RE:To the No NAME Poster FROM SYSOPS   1/22/2004 8:26:51 AM
I will try to answer the part that survived SYSOPS: A Tornado going low is rapidly changing course to enter into blind speeds of AWACS - a cruisemissile isn't - That is the difference. I've never contended that ground based radars are of much use against either a Tornado or a cruise missile - on the contrary. To deal with those threats you need Visual Observers like the now disbanded Royal Observer Corps WW2-version. If a fighter is lead on to a cruise missile - and the jock looks out of the office - it is no big deal to shoot it down - even with the gun. Other method are available. But Nameless is right in supposing - if that is what he is doing - it needs a well organised Air Defence.
 
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Thomas    RE:Any way to stop standoff JDARMS? - hybrid   1/22/2004 8:36:05 AM
The high altitude systems, whatever they are, are not "silver Bullits" - and it has been my hunch for long, that their real value is to keep your own act together, rather than fight the enemy. Weaknesses: 1. Most systems suffer from "blind speeds" to some extend, these are necessary to sort out ground clutter. 2. How long do these system survive? They will most certainly be high priority targets. 3. "Terrain interrupts the beams. Therefore, radar is considered ineffective below a given altitude." Yes: Certain terrain gives cover even from airborne radars. That is why visual observer are needed. It has happened time and again, that Observer have looked down on an attacking aircraft en route - piting the lack of result the pilots resolve was goin to meet.
 
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