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Subject: UK Rapier/Seawolf replacement
streaky bacon    9/19/2007 5:10:30 AM
On Richard Beedalls Navy Matters website, in the Future Surface Combatant section there is reference to MBDA Uk working on the Common Anti-Air modular missile to replace the Rapier and Seawolf! Does anyone have any information of what the system might be like? I assume it will be based on a Vertical Launched Asraam missile! Interesting that instead of the ASTER 15 missile the UK as choosen to look at other options????? Maybe Aster is not all it's cracked up to be????
 
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Herald1234    EXACTLY.   9/19/2007 7:43:26 AM
The British aren't stupid.
 
Herald
 
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streaky bacon       9/19/2007 9:52:12 AM
Well Hearld if us brits were not stupid then instead of giving £1billion to the French for the Aster missile we would've developed the Sea Dart a little but further!!!!!!! Suppose the UK wanted to be good Europeans....again!
 
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Herald1234       9/19/2007 10:20:05 AM

Well Hearld if us brits were not stupid then instead of giving £1billion to the French for the Aster missile we would've developed the Sea Dart a little but further!!!!!!! Suppose the UK wanted to be good Europeans....again!


 
Everybody makes mistakes. The US rolled out the LCS and the DDX. At least with the Type 45 DARING you got the ship, her radars, her CMs, and other EW systems profoundly right. You can always change out the rockets. The French with FORBIN have to fix their ship from the keel up, as do we,
 
Herald
 
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doggtag       9/19/2007 10:24:19 AM

Well Hearld if us brits were not stupid then instead of giving £1billion to the French for the Aster missile we would've developed the Sea Dart a little but further!!!!!!! Suppose the UK wanted to be good Europeans....again!



Too bad you didn't.
I wonder just how capable an airbreathing (solid-fueled ramrocket instead of liquid fueled ramjet?) modern tech Sea Dart would be.
Couple an improved engine to the much-touted AMRAAM seeker head and you've got a real winner.
What kind of range would that afford? 100km? 150? more?
Effectively, it could give the RN (and Sea Dart customers) Standard SM ranges, in a more compact weapon (might mean smaller warhead though), but perhaps not at SM costs.
 
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Herald1234       9/19/2007 10:31:13 AM




Well Hearld if us brits were not stupid then instead of giving £1billion to the French for the Aster missile we would've developed the Sea Dart a little but further!!!!!!! Suppose the UK wanted to be good Europeans....again!





Too bad you didn't.

I wonder just how capable an airbreathing (solid-fueled ramrocket instead of liquid fueled ramjet?) modern tech Sea Dart would be.

Couple an improved engine to the much-touted AMRAAM seeker head and you've got a real winner.

What kind of range would that afford? 100km? 150? more?

Effectively, it could give the RN (and Sea Dart customers) Standard SM ranges, in a more compact weapon (might mean smaller warhead though), but perhaps not at SM costs.


Yep, have to agree. In effect it would be a bigger METEOR 
Herald
 
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doggtag    SSD 21 (Super Sea Dart for the 21st Century)   9/19/2007 12:15:41 PM
...and I bet, judging  by its size, it could be modified into an effective (a dedicated version with mission-specific hardware, or just upgrade the software to allow for it) anti-surface weapon, against both ships and land targets,
its M2+ supersonic speed making it all that much more difficult to intercept.
 
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EssexBoy    MBDA UK?   9/27/2007 1:09:08 PM
Just being pedantic but the Navy Matters site says that MBDA are working on the new missile family not MBDA UK. I haven't been able to find any further information on this so I'm not sure who is doing the work. Given that the UK hasn't produced a new SAM since er so long ago I can't remember (Does Starstreak count?) I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be done across the channel.
 
It also seems odd that they're talking about developing a new missile when MBDA already produces the Aster-15 and the VLMICA (which VT are installing on their OPVs for Oman). Would it not be cheaper to upgrade one of these systems?
 
I may have misunderstood this, but I hope the new missile is intended to be more like the Aster 15 than Seawolf. After all the Fremms will be armed with the Aster 15. Another procurement disaster in the offing?
 
Essex
 
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NATO OF-2 RN    Super Sea Dart   9/27/2007 6:20:08 PM
Herald - I'm not sure I understand your positive comments regarding a hypothetical improved Sea Dart.  I don't know if you've ever been in contact with the system, but whilst reasonable a long time ago I don't see that you've that much to work with.

Sea Darts themselves are big, clumsy missiles.  Really big missiles.  Surely if you're replacing the seeker head with something completely different and replacing the engines with something completely different, and you're not a fan of the size... how is it the same (if updated) missile

I've no idea concerning the capabilities of the Aster missile.  You claim to have detailed technical knowledge, so for the sake of the argument I'll cede to your idea that it is awful.  If that is the case the RN would have been best served buying US missiles as I fail to see how Sea Dart could be improved to a par.
 
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Herald1234    Cref :METEOR   9/28/2007 6:09:29 AM
If you can find the thread where I discussed it, see what I wrote about METEOR as the second stage of a two stage vertical launched RN or for that matter British Army SAM for the UK.
 
It at least WORKS well. [actually frightenly well]
 
And that is more than you have now with the PoS ASTER..
 
Think of it as a possible much better British version of NASAM or ESSM. 
 
Herald
 
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Yimmy       9/28/2007 2:55:52 PM
Scratching my magical crystal balls, I predict that there will be no replacement for Rapier, leaving the army and RAF with HVM, while the RN will replace Sea Wolf with VLMICA or ASTER15.
 
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