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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel    8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM
By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:I know its pointless to argue with y'all, but .....   11/30/2003 5:03:50 PM
The F4 scenario reinforces the fact that pilot training as well as platform capability is critical. It wasn't an issue of saying one air force is better than another, its a matter of realising that the quality of pilot training provides leverage that can be a force multiplier in its own right. Not many nations are in a position to survive a war of attrition, hence capability in both human and technical terms can swing events into another nations favour. eg the fog of war.
 
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bsl    RE:ZealousZionist overruled?   11/30/2003 9:14:44 PM
One point I've heard made time after time by senior, very experienced American fighter pilots is that they consider flying hours and experience to be far and away the most important factor in the effectiveness of fighter pilots. FWIW, on more than one occasion, I've heard such pilots insist, repeatedly, that they would put really experienced pilots in MiG-21s against the new class of pilots who just qualified in the latest block F-15s. And, indeed, this seems to have been the repeated experience in the old Top Gun and the Red Flag exercises. Equipment is important and matters, but where the rubber meets the road, training is crucial and the more hours you can give your pilots in the air, the better they will be. There is no substitute for extensive training, honing and rehoning skills.
 
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bsl    RE:ZealousZionist overruled? - Hardly   11/30/2003 9:17:00 PM
As far as AWACs are concerned - any version of this general mission; not just American E-3s - this is something which justifies development of a long range, high speed air intercept missile.
 
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jacques    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   12/1/2003 2:56:33 AM
Israel have a very good air force, but certainly not the best. It's depend in which quality you consider most important. Quantitative wise america has the best air force. Qualitative wise France has the best. Public relation wise israel has the best. I am not counting china, russian or india because they're not in the league
 
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Boomer    RE:The F15I is not realy a dog-fighting machine   12/1/2003 5:59:55 AM
"When u have the Python 5 Missile a spitfire can kill a su-3 " LoL yeah :) You can put it on a WW1 fighter and take down an F22 with it :P
 
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sentinel28a    RE:ZealousZionist overruled? - Hardly   12/1/2003 11:42:28 AM
As I recall, the Russian AA-9 (?) Amos missile is designed to kill AWACS birds, and has a range of about 60 miles--less than that of a Phoenix, but still twice that of an AMRAAM. Question is, could a Python intercept the Amos? Jacques, I know you like the Armee de l'Air, but I really can't accept the idea of France having the qualitative best air force. They're in the top rank, I agree, but I think the US has a slight edge, as well as possibly Israel.
 
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MOAB-068    To answer your question...NO   12/1/2003 1:05:24 PM
IAF is the best air force in the middle -east bar none. However, the overall best AF, you have to be kidding. The US has the best AF/Army/Navy. No other country is even close. The IAF cannot project power. Their arm forces are designed to defend their country. And they are very good at doing that. I am tired of seeing these topics that have countries other than the US as having the "best" Army/Navy/AF. The USA has the best logistical setup that allows it to project power anywhere in the world. No other country can do that for a sustainable amount of time.
 
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ace2004    IAF ability to project power   12/1/2003 2:20:21 PM
They proved themselves over Iraq, Tunisia, and Uganda. The IAF can definitely project power way beyond Israel's borders and have been able to do so for decades. With the addition of the F15I and F16I to the inventory the IAF is far more capable that it was when it hit Iraq's nuclear power plant. Furthermore the IAF has air refueling capability, advanced airborne radar and command resources, and sophisticated satellite imagery (e.g. Ofek series). The IAF also enjoys basing facilities in Turkey from which it can project power, though I'm not sure exactly how much leeway they have in actually attacking third countries.
 
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Butcher0    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   12/1/2003 3:37:17 PM
I believe, but I cannot locate the pertinent data at this time, that the Texas Air National Guard has far and away the highest flying-hours per pilot of any other air force in the world. The figure that I recall, offhand, is upwards of 40,000 hours of flying time per pilot.
 
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MOAB-068    RE:IAF ability to project power   12/1/2003 5:04:03 PM
Ace2004, no disrespect, but you have to be kidding! You consider Iraq, Tunisia, and Uganda as an example of their ability to "project power". These third-world countries militaries are a joke. Iraq's armed forces were completely degraded after GWI. And with respect to your quote, "Furthermore the IAF has air refueling capability, advanced airborne radar and command resources, and sophisticated satellite imagery (e.g. Ofek series)" where do you think the IAF got the technology/resources? Who makes the most advanced versions of these resources? The USA!!!!! You know what is true projection of power - 12 Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier (USA). Ace2004, let's be realistic. I reiterate, the IDF is made to defend Israel proper. They are very good at doing that. They are also a great US allie. But they only can fight on their "home-turf" without US support.
 
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