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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel    8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM
By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)
 
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Mechanic       8/13/2007 12:03:18 PM


When a jet engine goes into reheat, the jet fuel is dumped directely into the exhaust after turbine and is ignited by the exhaust heat to boost the final exhaust velocity of the propellant mass. This burns jet fuel at an enormous rate. Depending on the type of engine the fuel consumption rate can go from 20x to 100x  normal subsoinic cruise burn rates. A  fuel reserve that allows MACH 0.9 for 120 minutes will be burned off in 4 minutes flat or less.
 

Under reheat the Soloviev D30 engines can increase their internal operating core temperatures from 1300 C to nearly 2300 C. Now that  may not mean anything to you, but to me; unless Russian jet engine designers learned a lot more than they actually have about turbine blade intercooling, that means that your Soloviev melts into slag and throws metal after about 400 seconds at 2000 C.

 

I have no knowledge about D30, but from what I know about other jet engines:

Afterburner is not ignited by the the heat of exhaust gases. There is a dedicated ignition system.

Afterburner doesn't affect core temperatures, because it's after the engine core.

(I have heard an anecdote saying that each D30 flies at M2.8 only once)
 
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Herald1234       8/13/2007 12:29:36 PM





When a jet engine goes into reheat, the jet fuel is dumped directely into the exhaust after turbine and is ignited by the exhaust heat to boost the final exhaust velocity of the propellant mass. This burns jet fuel at an enormous rate. Depending on the type of engine the fuel consumption rate can go from 20x to 100x  normal subsoinic cruise burn rates. A  fuel reserve that allows MACH 0.9 for 120 minutes will be burned off in 4 minutes flat or less.


 



Under reheat the Soloviev D30 engines can increase their internal operating core temperatures from 1300 C to nearly 2300 C. Now that  may not mean anything to you, but to me; unless Russian jet engine designers learned a lot more than they actually have about turbine blade intercooling, that means that your Soloviev melts into slag and throws metal after about 400 seconds at 2000 C.



 




I have no knowledge about D30, but from what I know about other jet engines:

Afterburner is not ignited by the the heat of exhaust gases. There is a dedicated ignition system.

Afterburner doesn't affect core temperatures, because it's after the engine core.

(I have heard an anecdote saying that each D30 flies at M2.8 only once)


I stand corrected on the ignition [I checked, I'm wrong on the plume ignition at least with regard to the engines I was able to pull up.] .
 
As for heat transfer, I have to dispute that. HEAT travels forward as well as backward in the work transfer in a jet engine. There is no thermal wall in the gas flow.
 
Herald   
 
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F-22       11/8/2007 10:46:26 PM
Do you think the Vietnam War would have gone better if Israel helped with air support?
 
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displacedjim       11/8/2007 11:27:31 PM

Do you think the Vietnam War would have gone better if Israel helped with air support?



Yeah, sure, along with the Crimean War, the Hundred Years War, and two of the three Punic Wars (your choice).
 
 
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Worf_Israel    I MADE THIS POST! END IT !   12/6/2007 2:29:50 PM
PEOPLE IT IS ME! Worf_Israel the kid (at the time) that created this post. Did anyone take a minute to look at the date? This post has been actively engaged since 8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM its OVER 4 YEARS OLD! I was a 16 year old boy living in Israel at the time. Today I am a 20 year old man living in Detroit Michigan, going to Michigan University for Medical School. Its very interesting how things turn out. I am surprised you people are still keeping this topic alive… its been 4 years give it a rest. I believe I should receive the longest running topic award of some sort.
 
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kingkong8989    Best Air Force??   4/15/2008 12:32:34 AM
To be the Best Air -force, other than having a good aircraft, you need good weapon and of course the pilot. Does Isreal have the best, to the extend of training others??
 
 
The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian MiG-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians. Flt/Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. He was honored by the Syrian government. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war.
 
 
 
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Herald12345       4/16/2008 10:28:59 AM

To be the Best Air -force, other than having a good aircraft, you need good weapon and of course the pilot. Does Isreal have the best, to the extend of training others??

 

READ HERE, Extract from :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Air_Force</a></div>;" target="_blank">link
 

The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian MiG-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians. Flt/Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. He was honored by the Syrian government. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war.

 

 
ACIG database. Pakistanis shot down.

In FIVE wars when going up against India the Pakiastani bandit regime has never held air superiority against the IAF or been able to defend its airspace from Indian attack, even when those bozos tried to Bodenplatte the IAF in a surprise attack.

Where was the cowardly PAF when the Pakistani Navy was creamed in its own ports during Trident, buffoon?

And as to CAP missions over Syria? What result again LIAR?  Israel tore you clowns apart. Your pilots achiev 3ed nothing. Mission failure. 

Phantom in IAF service.

Next time you try to use Wiki, liar, know that it is packed full of lies, usually edited in by liars such as yourself.


Herald
 
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displacedjim       4/16/2008 11:38:53 AM
Knowingly repeating a falsehood is a lie.  Unknowingly repeating a falsehood is not a lie, regardless of whether contravening information is available to him or not.  I don't know who that last poster is, what his motivations are, or if anything he said was intentionally misleading or if he is just himself misinformed, but you have exactly ZERO evidence and I'd say just as little reason for calling him a "liar."  You are extremely rude.
 
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Herald12345       4/16/2008 12:18:53 PM
The Incident.
Knowingly repeating a falsehood is a lie.  Unknowingly repeating a falsehood is not a lie, regardless of whether contravening information is available to him or not.  I don't know who that last poster is, what his motivations are, or if anything he said was intentionally misleading or if he is just himself misinformed, but you have exactly ZERO evidence and I'd say just as little reason for calling him a "liar."  You are extremely rude.

[quoting]

SHAHBAZ OVER GOLAN
The saga of an intrepid PAF pilot who humbled the Israelis

http://www.defencejournal.com/images/kaiser.jpg" alt="kaiser" height="175" width="141">

Gp Capt KAISER TUFAIL writes a fascinating account of PAF's effective but little known role in defence of Arab skies

P ost-haste summons for volunteers found an eager band of sixteen PAF fighter pilots on their way to the Middle East, in the midst of the 1973 Ramadan war. After a gruelling Peshawar-Karachi-Baghdad flight on a PAF Fokker, they were whisked off to Damascus in a Syrian jet. Upon arrival, half the batch was told to stay back in Syria while the rest were earmarked for Egypt. By the time the PAF batch reached Cairo, Egypt had agreed to a ceasefire; it was, therefore, decided that they would continue as instructors. But in Syria, it was another story.

The batch in Syria was made up of pilots who were already serving there on deputation (except one), but had been repatriated before the war. Now they were back in familiar surroundings as well as familiar aircraft, the venerable MiG-21. They were posted to No 67 Squadron, 'Alpha' Detachment (all PAF). Hasty checkouts were immediately followed by serious business of Air Defence Alert scrambles and Combat Air Patrols from the air base at Dumayr.

Syria had not agreed to a ceasefire, since Israeli operations in Golan were continuing at a threatening pace. Israeli Air Force missions included interdiction under top cover, well supported by intense radio jamming as the PAF pilots discovered. The PAF formation using the callsign 'Shahbaz' was formidable in size - all of eight aircraft. Shahbaz soon came to stand out as one that couldn't be messed with, in part because its tactics were innovative and bold. Survival, however, in a jammed-radio environment was concern number one. As a precaution, the Pakistanis decided to switch to Urdu for fear of being monitored in English. Suspicions were confirmed during one patrol, when healthy Punjabi invectives hurled on radio got them wondering if Mossad had recruited a few Khalsas for the job!

After several months of sporadic activity, it seemed that hostilities were petering out. While the Shahbaz patrols over Lebanon and Syria had diminished in frequency, routine training sorties started to register a rise. Under these conditions it was a surprise when on the afternoon of 26th April 1974, the siren blasted from the airshafts of the underground bunker. Backgammon boards were pushed aside and the 'qehva' session was interrupted as all eight pilots rushed to their MiGs; they were airborne within minutes. From Dumayr to Beirut, then along the Mediterranean coast till Sidon, and a final leg eastwards, skirting Damascus and back to Base - this was the usual patrol, flown at an altitude of 6 km. The limited fuel of their early model MiG-21F permitted just a 30 minutes sortie; this was almost over when ground radar blurted out on the radio that two bogeys (unidentified aircraft) were approaching

 
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beckyone1    i am jewish so i would say yes but it also depends   8/19/2008 11:55:49 AM
 
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