Does israel have the best Air Force?

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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel 8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM

By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)

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tinashe 5/24/2007 8:00:04 PM

Just out of curiosity to the dude who reckons I'm an idiot...what do you do for living? When you question my physics, to what level did your physics to (please dont tell me if its below University Masters level thanks). This is the problem with states that go into a war with a pre concieved idea of dominance. They become so arrogant they dont realise their own misgivings.

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Herald1234 5/25/2007 8:32:57 AM

I am a private industrial contractor.

I called ypu an idiot because you failed to visualize the air defense problem outlined in your mind's mathematical eye. Example How large is Israel? How large is the United States? From wheels up to intercept on after burner in Israel is roughly five minutes. In the US, the air defense forces are rated lucky and good if they get to their bomber interception points upon NORAD alert within fifteen minutes of runway sortie from our ANG bases.

The USAF defends an airspace area easily as large as Europe's. Israel's is much smaller than New Jersy, McGee. Only so many ANG bases and aircraft cover the US airspace once NORAD posts the alert. Israel has more planes per cubic kilometer of airspace to defend herself and far less distance to go from airbase to intercept point. The density advantage for Israel works out to roughly 10xc.

That you might have a masters in physics impresses me not at all, since you didn't consider the problem from a physics viewpoint or even a simple cubic geometry vector viewpoint, but rather from a propoganda political viewpoint based on preconceived notions you learned from media outlets.

So on that basis when you wrote YOUR opinion, you demonstrated you didn't know what you were writing about.

This does not reflect on MY opinion of the Israeli Air Force which I believe to be among the finest on Earth based on their proven combat operations record against Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt in repeated wars.

I have the same current high regard for the British, the Russians, the French, the Vietnamese, the Indians, the Italians, the Dutch, and the Germans who proved that they were very capable in their recent war operations..

As for the USAF, its combat operations speak volumes.

Plain enough?

So...................................................what do you have to say for yourself to prove to me that my assessment of YOU is in error?

Herald

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tinashe 6/6/2007 7:06:57 AM

i hope the silly dude who calls himself the private industrial instructor [whatever on earth that is]reads this because this is for arrogant people like him. my friend it is good that you compare the size of america and israel. israel is quite small but the things they have achieved and the honour with which they have done it prove them to have the best airforce and perhaps military in the world. go back into history starting from the day israel declared itself a nation . look at things like the 6 day war, raid on entebbe. i mean there is absolutely no question of their brilliance and it does not even take a physics genius to work that one out. as far as intelligence is concerned everyone knows they have the best 'mi5 of fbi' there is to date in man's history. if the history books fail you then try the bible. israel is the only nation that is outlined as God's own and He himself [God] will defend it. that is why even though it is very small nobody and i repeat nobody can conquer it. they are more than the word brilliant. so please do your homework and get the facts straight before you make unintelligeble comments that have no basis whatsoever...

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french stratege 6/6/2007 7:48:36 AM

Entebee raid is a good achievement but it was agaisnt African amateurs.

And frankly having fought arabs in classical wars is not a so great achievement considering the enormous gap in weaponry and proficieny. Arabs are not Whermacht!

The true is that Israel has a very good airforce and some elite units and a lot of weaponry for such a small country.

Now on proficiency , Israel air force is not very experienced in BVR, and train less than best NATO countries.

On the ground the bulk of army train much less than a good NATO nation with professional forces and is not very mobile.

But it is large and well equiped except for IFV.

Israel is not able to conduct fast armored operations with its reservist army.

A very good force but which has no credential to call itself best army/air force in world.

And BTW its performance in Lebanon was a shame.

However its air force is probably in the 3 western best in quality and power now and its ground army in the 4 best in quality*power but not fit for fast deep operation.

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french stratege 6/6/2007 7:57:55 AM

Let see history

1956 Good operation but British and french have destroyed Egyptian air force

1967 well planned preemptive strike agaisnt the poor arabs.Even Egyptian radars were shut down!

1973 Sad start to be overwhelmed by Egyptians but good fight back once sub par Egyptian made errors and US gave equipement in urgency

1982 good fight in the air agaisnt the almost obsolete Syrian air force.Mixed results on the ground

2006 Pitiful operation agaisnt a Hizbollah brigade

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Mechanic 6/6/2007 11:00:15 AM

Come on. IDF is mostly equipped with American stuff paid by Americans.

That doesn't make IDF any less capable but shows the might of The US of America..

PS. I'm not American and I consider my self moderately anti-American.

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Ezekiel French strat's stats 6/7/2007 2:56:07 AM

Where did you get the figures for Israeli pilot's training time and then be able to the training time of the brits and the UK.

Your analysis of Israel's air achievments is understated....but of course french stat we can always rely you for that when concerning Israel. The fact that Israel is operational experience to the point that America regularly uses the experience of IAF experience. As for lebanon if looked through the air prism, one cannot deny The IAF precision attacks that wiped out Hezbollah's long range missile threat in the first hours of fighting.

It is absolutely absurd to deny Israel air victories b/c the enemy was in retrospect not up to task. These Armies were equipped with russian migs that had never been seen in conflict with american weaponry until Israel engaged the arabs. It becomes an Israeli weakness when they thrash their foe's b/c then you have people like french strat who then say well they were easy... they don't count.

Israeli pilots are some of the most rigorously trained in the world they are backed by the most advanced avionics and electronic equipment produced on earth (produced by Israel industry) it is one of the main reasons the US doesn't want their f-35 to be upgraded by Israel. And a tested and effective air doctrine.

and much of the designs in the LAVI is now used in the new euro typhoon.

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Herald1234 6/8/2007 9:40:32 AM

1. Nice try. Cannot argue on point, so try to change the basis of the argument. Now you bring up some history to try to claim something? When the IAF stands off Russia's Strategic Rocket Forces for fifty years or destroys the IJAAF or the Reichluftwaffe then come around calling thumping your chest Otherwise leave comparative history alone. YOU are not qualified.

2. You raise extraneous issues that have nothing to do with the question at hand. If you had raised Operation Fortune or the Osirak Raid, you might have done better, but other operations in the 1973 War when the IAF failed to suppress the Egyptian SAM belt and ignored bitter USAF experience learned during LINEBACKER or Indian Air Force experience against the Pakistanis, shows a certain ill founded arrogance. Recent Lebanon 2006 operations indicate that the IAF battlespace intelligence and assessment leaves a LOT to be desired. Again USAF advice and suggestions based on bitter experiencethe IAF ignored.

3. I raise the issue of airspace volume, time, and aircraft coverage to demonstrate that the IAF has a defense problem that is different from that faced by the USAF. Different does not mean inferior. Different means different. YOU were to stupid to see this? Tough; I have no respect for the superficial thinker.

4. "God" helps those who help themselves. Superstition is no match for kinetics and those with the will to apply it.

5. Entebbe was a high risk operation. It succeeded. Congratulations then and now. It was and is not unique. Britain, Holland, and Peru have carried out equally hazardous hostage rescue missions.

To others who read this response. My respect for the IAF is extreemely high and so remains. The Israeli Zroa HaAvir VeHa?alal remains in my estimate one of the finest air forces on the planet Earth. For Israel it carries out its mission extremely well. But I would say this for the air forces of Australia, Argentina, Britain, France, Japan, Russia, India, Holland, Italy, Poland, Vietnam, Finland, Germany, and the United States. These nations have demonstrated more than historic adequate competence in the air.

Nations like Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Pakistan, the PRCs et al, need not apply. Their dismally incompetent combat records speak volumes.

Herald

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Ezekiel 6/21/2007 3:28:44 PM

here's a recent development "> that show's the caliber of the Israeli's in the air. At least this is what america's thinks.

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french stratege 6/21/2007 4:00:30 PM

and much of the designs in the LAVI is now used in the new euro typhoon.

I do not hesitate to crtic British when they deserve it, but no technology of Lvai was used in the Typhoon .

Typhoon tech is UK/German indigenous (while those of Lavi come from USA).

Ezekiel

Israel air force is a very good air force as israel army.But consider that Israel defense budget is below 10 billion US $, USA aid included.

And price of oil is the same for everybody.

10 billion US $ is roughly the French defense budget part for maintenance and support only.And this while Israel has a number of plane not far away and has a tank force 3 times of ours.The training can not be the same.

Provide me a breakdown of training cost and Israel defense budget!

Israel train less than best NATO countries and they have difficulties to practice BVR due to Israel size and lack of dissimilar training.

Moreover Israel experience is those of pilots who are retirees for long since 1982 and was agaisnt a third rate air force.

Now it is a very good air force.But far to be the über-airforce you think when you consider other best air forces.

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