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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel    8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM
By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)
 
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ace2004    RE:IAF ability to project power   12/1/2003 6:34:40 PM
The IAF mission has changed over the past few years. Key threats to Israel are beyond the country's immediate borders and the IAF has been reconfigured for this. There would be no reason to invest in the F15I or F16I if Israel were concerned only about its direct neighbors. The IAF's ability to project power to the far corners of the Middle East has never been truely tested. But it exists and is getting stronger. Of course the IAF's power projection pales when compared to the total U.S. capability. That is not being argued here. For a small country however, Israel does pretty damned good.
 
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MOAB-068    RE:IAF ability to project power   12/1/2003 7:07:00 PM
Now we are in agreement.
 
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bsl    RE:The F15I is not realy a dog-fighting machine   12/1/2003 7:10:20 PM
"You can put it on a WW1 fighter and take down an F22 with it" Might, at that. How do you get a radar lock on a nearly metal-free airframe, and one whose cruising speed may be below the stall speed of the F-22?
 
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bsl    RE:ZealousZionist overruled? - Hardly   12/1/2003 7:13:48 PM
sentinal- What I had in mind was something more like a Phoenix. Or, that second generation AMRAAM they've talked about, with a first stage to extend the range. AWACS are likely to be heavily defended. OTOH, they're slow and not terribly manueverable. Now, F-22s might be fairly well suited to go after such targets, but I don't think any other fighter would be. It would be a raid into the heart of an alerted defense. Possible, but difficult and likely to be costly. OTOH, engaging with a long range, high speed missile seems more practicable.
 
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jacques    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   12/2/2003 2:01:28 AM
Guys we all sound like a whole bunch of ignorant bullies now. The enemy is not Israel. I am not a jewish sympathizer, but let be fair here. Israel is an ally of the west. The enemies are those muslim fanatics out there.
 
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Boomer    RE:The F15I is not realy a dog-fighting machine   12/2/2003 11:32:39 AM
"Might, at that. How do you get a radar lock on a nearly metal-free airframe, and one whose cruising speed may be below the stall speed of the F-22 " This is not really seriously talking... It's just to make a point :) By the way, you do not need a radar lock, it's a heat-seaker. If you want it to bring down the plane on your six you tell it to take down the plane on your six (not with words of course) and what it would do is first make a 360 degrees turn and then look for that plane. (I dont know how it works exactly - pretty classifed - so I have no Idea how it makes sure that it won't bring down your own plane ;))
 
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mustavaris    RE:IAF ability to project power   12/2/2003 11:42:18 AM
"You consider Iraq, Tunisia, and Uganda as an example of their ability to "project power". These third-world countries militaries are a joke. Iraq's armed forces were completely degraded after GWI. " Israel´s bold strike against Iraq happened in 1981. Iraq´s defences were one the strongest in the 3rd world (at least on paper) and the war against Iran hadnt ruined their capabilities.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:IAF ability to project power   12/2/2003 2:28:39 PM
Jacques, for once we are in total agreement. Actually, the F-22 wouldn't need a missile to take down a Spad, say...it just needs to fly by it at top speed and disintegrate the Spad with the Mach shockwave!
 
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bsl    RE:The F15I is not realy a dog-fighting machine   12/2/2003 8:36:04 PM
Boomer, Serious? Moi? 8^) I understand that short range missiles are IR guided. My example showed that long range engagement is difficult. Medium range, with IR seekers? WW1 fighters are SLOW. Modern IR heads can lock onto the leading edges of aerodynamic surfaces, heated by the friction of the passage of air. But, at 125 knots? How hot does the leading edge of a fabric wing heat at this speed? That leaves the gun. I don't have figures handy, but I wonder if ANY modern fighter has the turning radius of a Sophwith Camel? The problem is that the stall speed of modern craft, even if reasonably low, are pretty close to the top speed of WW1 era craft. The Camel handles just fine at a speed when even an F-16 or MiG-29 is trying to fall out of the sky.
 
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Nichevo    RE:The F15I is not realy a dog-fighting machine   12/2/2003 10:56:22 PM
IR will lock onto a Spad's engine just fine, thanks.
 
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