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Subject: Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?
macawman    8/14/2003 9:56:02 PM
My first thought on the subject of SAM countermeasures on airliners was; "What a waste of $10 Billion dollars". But further analysis of Israeli ECM methodolgy makes an impression that the Israelis may know what they are doing. A laser beam interference countermeasure could defeat both IR and UV seeker SAM system. The countermeasures being proposed dealt only with the infrared(IR) spectrum and not the ultraviolet(UV)spectrum which targets the COLDEST spot on an aircraft - the Lexan plastic windshield or windows of an airliner. Bureaucrates and Generals have a nasty habit of fighting the last problem or war "THE WAY WE DID IT BACK THEN" and not by what is possible now.
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giblets    RE:Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?   8/17/2003 3:33:51 AM
I read soemwhere that the industry uses some sort of cost comparison to decide on safety mneasures, soemthing like 1 million per death (don't quote me on this, just an of the top of my head figure), if it costs more, it is cheaper to just pay out compensation, thats the reason why a number of recomondations from the likes of the NTSB were never carried out. Too much cash for the number of people it will save.
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macawman    RE:Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?   8/17/2003 11:13:12 PM
Strategypage article on airliner ECM does not indicate how effective a laser/flash system may be. El Al airlines is said to have this system employed. The SA-7 attack on El Al in N Africa may have been diverted by such a system. Reports said that the attacks were too close for the warheads to arm but not arming the warhead would not stop the missile from going up the rear of the jet engines. Something diverted the SA-7s from those engines. It could have been the "lock on" of the Sun (very unlikely)or the flash blinding device worked. August 16, 2003: For decades, military aircraft have carried defenses against heat seeking missiles. These systems consist of special cameras (that detect heat as well as images and movement) and computers that spot the tell-tale heat and movement of an oncoming heat-seeking missile. The system then (either automatically or under pilot control) dispenses flares or uses a laser or searchlight "gun" (in a turret) to deceive the heat sensor on the nose of the missile about where the aircraft really is. The flares have been around for decades, the laser or high intensity searchlight in a small, computer controlled, turret is a more recent development. If the systems are bought in large quantities (over a thousand) you can get the price down to about one or two million dollars. This is for a system using the newer laser based countermeasure, where a third of the total cost is for the detection system (two to six small cameras and a computer to figure out if it's a real attack and command the countermeasures to act) and two thirds is the cost of the laser and the ball turret it operates from. Using the older flare systems, the cost is about a third less, and the detection and countermeasures system cost about the same.
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macawman    RE:Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?   12/10/2003 9:30:45 PM
I think with 3 or more hits in a row around Baghdad Int. that this is enough proof that present US shoulder fired SAM counter-measures are not up to defeating 70's technology much less the current generation of MANPADS. It will typically be a year or more before laser counter-measures are to be deployed militarily and proven effective, if that is even the case.
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Peter1    RE:Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?   2/9/2004 6:16:33 PM
Israeli airliners are reported to be capable of dropping decoys. Not just shaff and flares. I do not know what they else can drop but rumours are that it can be a radar signal emitter.
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   RE:Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) on Jet Airliners ?   2/12/2004 9:39:17 PM
Its alot like parachutes on airliners: cost prohibitve..
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