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Subject: Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen.
Aussiegunner    7/29/2003 7:26:09 AM
I read a bit of bad news for all of us Aussies today. Indonesia is to take purchase of 2 SU-27's and 2 SU-30's, the first of a possible 24 of each type to be bought. Apparently this puts our upgraded F/A-18 force 4th in quality, behind Singapore and Malaysia(fortunately both allies), and Indonesia, in our immediate region. The Hornet's are also suffering centre barrel fatigue, which means that training hours are being limited to preserve the airframes. To make it worse, the Indonesians are looking at buying S-300's and an intergrated air-defence system, which seriously degrades the deterrant posed by our F-111's and their AGM-142's. While the current Indonesian government is relitively friendly, their are lots of Generals who are pissed off about our involvement in the liberation of East Timor. If their were a coup, it could spell trouble for us. I don't see that our government has any choice but to upgrade our airforce, to get us through the next 10 years before the JSF can be expected to arrive. Possible options are, -Leasing/buying new fighters until the JSF arrives. The late model F-16's would solve the fatigue problems of the F-18's, but would not give a real advantage over the SU-27. -An F-18E/EF-18G combo would be formidable, with the EW aircraft giving us a real advantage, though I don't like the idea of the "E's" getting caught without the "G's". This plan would however have training/maintainance advantages, as we already use F-18's. -A "silver bullet" force of F-22's has been suggested as part of the JSF buy, to give us a clear air to air advantage over any adversary. The government has rejected this, but mabye the idea or a variation of it needs to be introduced to get us through the next few years. While the F-22 may be to expensive/not available to Australia, a squadron of Typhoon's, to replace the oldest F-18's, may give us the edge we need. The F-18's could then be kept in reserve and rotated through the remaining squadrons, to extend the life of the force and give the pilots the hours they need. This would also give us an independent ability to provide dissimilar air combat training, though it would introduce another completely different logistics train. -ALCM's like the Joint Standoff Weapon for the F-111's, outranging the S-300s would provide us with the deterrant we need. They would also mean the F-111's could continue to adopt the less demanding high-level approach. -Long-range missile defences(ie, Patriots), for our northern facilites and for Darwin has also been suggested. Any thoughts on this?
 
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turbulens    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen. - turbulens/OPFOR   9/11/2003 12:54:38 PM
Yea, I agree with you, gunner, except for one thing. Yea, i know that your country was rated as the richest country in the world, with all of your natural resources. But, if you read more from many different literature, you will know the differences. The difference are: Indonesia have using just about 10- 20% of natural resources. And the rest 80%, not yet explored, and used yet. Australia, have many natural resources. But almost all of them have been explored, right? So we still reserving so many natural resources in our islands. That's the differences ;)
 
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Question    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen.    9/11/2003 11:00:57 PM
Nobody wants to answer my question?
 
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Aussiegunner    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen. - Question   9/12/2003 12:05:42 AM
I thought Singapore aimed to have a good fighter fleet, before the advent of the SU-27.
 
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Aussiegunner    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen. - turbulens/OPFOR   9/12/2003 12:11:06 AM
I think we have a few natural resources left to dig up. In any case, I am sure that Indonesia will eventually catch up with us economically. Most develping nations do, especially in Asia. Fortunately, this usually happens in the context of a stable political environment and a politically stable Indonesia would virtually remove the threat of conflict with Australia.
 
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Question    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen. - Question   9/14/2003 2:09:43 AM
Yea,but they said they were going to get more advanced fighters(most advanced fighters they have are F-16s,i think) to counter the SU-27/30s,and that is what i was referring to.
 
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Aussiegunner    RE:Indonesia buys Su-27's/30's: It had to happen. - Question   9/14/2003 3:32:16 AM
I know they are part of the F-35 program. Apart from that, I think it comes down to the latest block of F-16C's, with advanced avionics and AMRAAMS.
 
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Thomas    RE:Leoapard plz    9/19/2003 1:58:57 AM
It has always been a close call wether the russians are two-faced political arms cheaters or it's their shoddy manufacture.
 
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bombard    RE:Leoapard plz    12/1/2003 4:26:04 PM
Russians generally have their export quality below their own defence industry quality. Indonesia's purchase of advanced russian fighters are not a threat. Training large numbers of pilots into these planes, is. The local situation requires considerable counter-insurgency aircraft. The hawk is cheaper than the sukois, and will get more flight-budget. The hawk is a trainer for advanced fighters. Does this place indonesia in a position to suddenly increase its number of fighter pilots?
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Leoapard plz    12/1/2003 4:40:31 PM
bombard, the indons have always maintained a desire to pump the capability of their military back up after they suffered from the effects of the asian melt down. the 300's are the bigger initial worry
 
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Aardwolf    SU-27 Serviceability   12/2/2003 2:18:35 AM
MiG-29s and SU-27s seem to be regarded as needing much more "down time" than Western aircraft--I know that the engines in particular are supposed to need much more frequent overhaul/replacement. Are there other problems involved, such as with electronic systems? How about the actual airframe?
 
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