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Subject: Dealing with mass air attacks
EW3    3/10/2005 7:24:08 PM
In the case of NK and ChiCom, they have hundreds of "expendable" older aircraft that could be used to overwhelm local forces on Taiwan and SK. What options do we/they have? After the hostilities start, could we load up a bomber, say a B-1 or B-2, with as many AMRAAMs and fly CAP. Seems the cost of AMRAAM is slightly more than 1/2 the cost of a Patriot and the bomber could move the battlespace away from friendly territory.
 
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USN-MID    RE:ret13f   3/31/2005 1:14:08 PM
I think a mass air attack by the PRC is implicitly suicidal in nature, with the objective of eliminating key targets. Those MiG-21 are kamikazes. The PRC would gladly trade 20 J-8s for a single F-22 on the runway. For that you don't need AWACS. You need enough planes that the defense runs out of ready rounds before you get the bulk of your force over the objective. Assuming they can navigate...
 
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ret13f    RE:USN   3/31/2005 4:13:00 PM
so that brings up the question: how many kamikaze chinese pilots exist?
 
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USN-MID    RE:ret13f   3/31/2005 4:23:51 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure it's even a realistic option if you work out the range/fuel numbers for the J-8. It's suicidal b/c there's no way they're going in, turning and burning, and flying back...not enough fuel. Probably not so much an option anymore. I was really throwing that out more to apply between small neighboring nations.
 
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EW3    RE:ret13f/USN some numbers to work with   3/31/2005 4:26:49 PM
 
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EW3    RE:Dealing with mass air attacks / Sea Sparrow question   4/1/2005 1:59:16 PM
The latest ESSM can be mounted 4 to the cell using the Mk 25 adapter in a VLS cell. Anyone know if the same is true of the MK 21 launcher? Be great if a single MK 21 could deliver 32 ESSMs.
 
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Thomas    RE:EW3   4/4/2005 5:07:09 AM
Thanks for bringing some figures into the debate: 1. The real issue is that the PRC is going away from the mass assault idea. 2. The problem is wether they can handle this transformation successfully. It is not only a problem of learning to drive a more advanced car, but also of using the modern weapons: It does not make any sense to use the Flanker as a bomb truck. Furthermore there is the whole question of integration 4 AWACS does imply one in the air at all times. Coordinating 1000 tracks is some major task. - even a couple of hundred. Judging by the record of the PLAAF - and the Navy for that matter - they are in for a other costly catastrofe - that is before they start to think of shooting. To Shawn: Having a lot of concrete does not necessarily deminish the logistics problem - it might push the problem away from nests to roost; but the cost of protecting all those aircraft on different airfields must enormeous.
 
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Galderio    False targets   4/27/2005 5:52:42 PM
The chinese are working on false radar targets, and that is not a new idea. Don,t you think it could be a big problem?
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:False targets   4/27/2005 7:57:11 PM
"The chinese are working on false radar targets," The US has had false targetting for 50+ years, more recently using an australian seduction system - I reckon they might have a fair clue as to how to counter them as well. ;)
 
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MadRat    Any attrition rate is too high...   4/28/2005 3:21:16 AM
...when loss rates exceed the acqisition rate. Neither NK or China can afford to lose air supremacy for any length of time lest they lose the war, as the Korean War pretty well gave them the lesson. And for modern lessons on attrition rates look no further than Armenia vs Azerbijan, Moldova vs Russia, Iran vs Iraq, etc.
 
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Thomas    RE:False targets   4/28/2005 3:29:34 AM
Radar is an effective weapon; but not without its limitations. I'm all for supplementing radar with visual observation.
 
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