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Subject: Mig 31/SAM 10 question.
glenn239    12/6/2004 12:54:25 PM
The Mig 31 Foxhound is credited with datalink capability; One fighter can not only pass sensor/communication information to the others in the flight, but direct other’s missile attack as well. Its radar also can engage up to 4 targets simultaneously. Given the paucity of resources for electronic equipment within the Soviet Union at the time, does it strike anyone else as unusual that the Mig 31 would have the 4-target engagement feature? After all, with only 4 long range missiles on board, either the 4 target capability was wasted as the fighter assigned 2 missiles per target for a higher probability of a kill, or each target only received one missile, and hence had a higher chance of escaping. If the target were cruise missiles, then it’s hard to picture a common situation where the fighter couldn’t engage them in sequence. In either case, quite a bit of rare computer processing capability was tied up in a specialist interceptor, when models such as the Mig29 and SU27 could have greatly benefited from extra money sunk into their attack avionics. What I’m wondering is if the Mig 31’s datalink capability was compatible with the SA10 Grumble system. If so, then could not the SAM battery use the Mig’s powerful radar, ability to look down/shoot down, and simultaneous engagement capability to devastate intruders, even those out of direct LOS of the SAM battery? Also, would not the SAM remain invulnerable to HARM fire while doing so? Would the SAM 10 have to lock on to the Foxhound in order to be able to attack using the Foxhound data?
 
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HJ    Squadron of Tornadoes?   12/22/2004 9:44:04 AM
Back to your squadron of Tornadoes; first off, going low is rather unpopular these days, but regardless of altitude, squadrons don't fly 12 aircraft together except in airshows. With today's PGMs, strike packages are smaller and in high threat areas, they'd likely do a multi-axis attack thereby compounding the Air Defense problem (if it hasn't been neutralized by SEAD or AEA).
 
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Mechanic    Guiding others' missiles   1/16/2005 1:57:37 PM
I think it would be rather compilcated to integrate MiG-31 and SA-10 FCSs. I back to an example from west. AIM-120 guidance system would be ideal for engaing targets that are detected by third party. Missile only needs data where it's now and where the target is now and speed vectors. Accuracy is increased with mid-flight target position update via datalink. As it's possible to transfer target data via datalink so it's displayed on another aircraft MFD it should be rather straight forward to transfer that data to missile, still that haven't been done. The SA-10 guidance system is based on ground control station which needs information about the missile an the target. Only that makes it's much complicated for other than launcing platform to guide the missile. Mayby it's possilbe, but I doubt it.
 
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glenn239    RE:Guiding others' missiles   1/16/2005 7:53:13 PM
Q: Back to your squadron of Tornadoes; first off, going low is rather unpopular these days, but regardless of altitude, squadrons don't fly 12 aircraft together except in airshows. With today's PGMs, strike packages are smaller and in high threat areas, they'd likely do a multi-axis attack thereby compounding the Air Defense problem (if it hasn't been neutralized by SEAD or AEA) A: Fair enough. The evolution in tactics away from low-level penetration is a symptom of the West's ability to supress the air defenses at altitudes above 8,000 feet. This, in turn, may have come about due to the relative obsolence of the defending high-altitude SAM systems. Q: The SA-10 guidance system is based on ground control station which needs information about the missile an the target. Only that makes it's much complicated for other than launcing platform to guide the missile. Mayby it's possilbe, but I doubt it A: The MIG wouldn't be guiding the missiles. What I'm picturing is where the MIG datalinks to the SAM and tells it where the target is. The SAM "knows" because it can lock it's radar onto the MIG and triangulate the position of the target from that and the MIG's radar data. When the SAM fires, the ground station would controls the attack. The MIG is simply another sensor in the SAM's net.
 
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