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Subject: The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.
Biffa    9/17/2004 3:40:16 PM
I recently learnt that the RAF Regiment will be soon disbanding its Rapier squadrons. WHY?.It is not long since we have updated to FSC and tests clearly show that Rapier is one of the most accurate and reliable short range air defence missile platforms in the world.What will hapen to the personel?, 15SQRN, 16SQRN, 26 and 37SQRN plus all the training units?. will the army take over airfield defence with its mobile units?. if so will it be as effective, as to my knowledge mobile Rapier dosent have a blind fire capability. any thoughts? ps i am a posting virgin, be gentle.
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doggtag    RE:The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.   9/17/2004 4:59:40 PM
My guess would be, that the MoD and Parliament see the system as being unnecessary. Since the RAF hasn't faced a credible air threat for umpteen years, perhaps the decision makers have decided the weapon will NEVER face a credible enemy then (that's how politicians think: we haven't needed this in how long, so we don't anticipate needing it anytime in the future, either.) Cancelling it now is all fine and dandy, so long as the UK government plans on never going up against an adversary with a formidable air arm (at which point, argument can then be made: why bother getting the F-35/JSF? Let's just make war obsolete altogether!) Seriously, if an adversary can see you suddenly have a weakness, he can design his next generation of equipment and tactics to exploit that. Deciding the UK no longer needs a low-level air defense system (will they opt to scrap Starstreak next?) might cause a future adversary to start training on low-level air srtike tactics. Unless sufficient numbers of air dominance fiughters are purchased by the RAF, scrapping the AD groups is nothing more than an exercise in foolishness. Besides, aircraft cannot be out protecting all your widespread ground assets all the time. Perhaps instead, they will opt for mobile Starstreak systems for airfield defense? And certainly, they could move the Rapiers to a friendly ally.. PS. Welcome to the Club..
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Biffa    RE:The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.   9/18/2004 7:05:30 AM
Just another case of politicians getting ivolved in something they no nothing about. i suppose we will have to make do with what we have got like we have always done, and hope to god that a Eaton educated, pencil pushing, sute wearing bean counter dosnt decide to axe another coupple of thosand jobs.
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Aussiegunner    RE:The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.   9/18/2004 8:47:46 AM
"i am a posting virgin, be gentle" We have a saying on this board, "old enough to bleed, old enough to butcher".... Just kidding and welcome;-).
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DropBear    RE:AussieG   9/18/2004 9:13:21 AM
Isn't the ADF in the process of upgrading Rapier? I thought I read somewhere that we'd buy excess British stock? Can't confirm rumour though..
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Biffa    RE:AussieG   9/18/2004 10:10:43 AM
It makes sense, the ADF will be getting top rate kit at bargin prices. Has anyone got any info on how big the ADF Rapier squadrons are?. Mabey the ADF could tranplant the entire RAF Rapier force, training kit and all into there existing units. its not as if the training manuals have to be reprinted in Australian.
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Carl D.    Another classic example from the we don't need... crowd.   9/21/2004 5:08:49 PM
This is the same thinking that killed the TRS2, the Arrow, full deck carriers, ordered an airplane based on it's ability to fit in already existing hangars (WW2's Stirling bomber), or only order full sizes in shoes for the troops. These are the same that later wonder what happened and start to blame the people they saddled with the problem for causing it or failing despite of it. God help us all.
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doggtag    RE:Another classic example from the we don't need... crowd.   9/21/2004 6:28:42 PM
The REAL crowd we don't need is the ignoramous politicians who make these stupid decisions. Maybe we could save just as many millions if we opted to confiscate and sell at public auction (money goes into national debt, troop morale, or whatever) one vacation home from each and every political bigwig. How many millions in revenue would that save us? But no, that wouldn't work. Because that requires the politicians to make a sacrifice for their country. Politicians would rather sacrifice part of their own country to suit their whims..
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Yimmy    RE:Another classic example from the we don't need... crowd.   10/2/2004 11:32:35 AM
Can anyone give me any evidence as to this dropping of RAF Rapier? I was of the understanding that all Rapier was to remain to compliment Starstreak for the notable future, until both systems are replaced.
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davoj    RE:The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.   10/4/2004 4:14:22 AM
Hi, I'm a virgin on this site, but I do n;t expect oo much mercy. A quick read around and it seems that there is genuine knowledge happening and not alot of provocation:) Regarding this post I'm a former Rapier Bod, ex army and although we never saw eye to eye with the Rock apes, it's a shock to see the demise of what is a specialist job, guarding fixed high value assets. In my time in the mob I never got the feeling that the Brits took air defence very seriously and that was the 80's, even after the Falklands. On Blindfire for Rapier (not 100% sure for FSC) but all Army stuff is usually the same mod level as RAF stuff for fleet interop spares etc as well as rapid deployment..... the Army just never bought Blindfire for every Rapier launcher, but if you emptied the training schools and war stock you'd find quite a few tucked away. I was a bit shocked to find out that 22 air defence regt were disbanded earlier this year, and got the feeling that Rapier was in for further chops. The truth is that Britain has forgotten about what not having air supremacy is all about and in this age of smart stealthy accurate weapons, I would think Rapier would be even more important for defending high value assets. The old USSR had such an umbrella of AD, they did it because because the luftwaffe were used very much in support of the ground armies in WWii with often devasting effect. It may also have something to do with budgets, and I get the feeling that the RAF top bods would rather a few more Typhoons having not had a proper fighter for so many decades. Davoj
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Yimmy    RE:The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.   10/4/2004 9:42:50 AM
davoj, if you dont mind my asking what regiment were you?
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