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Subject: The end of Rapier and RAF Regiment AD.
Biffa    9/17/2004 3:40:16 PM
I recently learnt that the RAF Regiment will be soon disbanding its Rapier squadrons. WHY?.It is not long since we have updated to FSC and tests clearly show that Rapier is one of the most accurate and reliable short range air defence missile platforms in the world.What will hapen to the personel?, 15SQRN, 16SQRN, 26 and 37SQRN plus all the training units?. will the army take over airfield defence with its mobile units?. if so will it be as effective, as to my knowledge mobile Rapier dosent have a blind fire capability. any thoughts? ps i am a posting virgin, be gentle.
 
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Yimmy    RE:casom   12/16/2004 1:03:36 PM
Why are you two bothering to argue about where the damn thing is made anyway? Who cares? It is not like Britain and France are going to be placing arms embargos on each other any time soon.
 
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french stratege    RE:casom   12/16/2004 1:14:05 PM
go to : http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=44 Storm Shadow is entirely designed in france as only interface are UK specific. The only mbda product designed and build in UK mainly are brimstone, dedale, Asraam, seawolf, Rapier and Jernas.HOT, MILAN, BANG, SCALP/StormShadow, exocet, ASTER, METEOR, MICA ...are French. You will notice that we produce all the spectrum of essential weapons ourself UNLESS UK. "About the Engines, the production of the Storm Shadow’s engines, involves Microturbo Ltd in Hampshire." For maintenance and sale support!
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:casom   12/16/2004 2:12:27 PM
French Stratege, you are talking nonsense. The MBDA link says nothing about what products are produced where and it only shows departmental links in each subsidiary. There is nothing to suggest that the Storm Shadow is produced in France, that is an unfounded assumption on your part, or any other system that you have mentioned and until you provide evidence to the contrary, there is no credibility in that notion that the UK only produces Brimstone given that MBDA’s largest production plant is in the UK, at Lostock, it is majority owned by the UK and it is headquartered in the UK. Look at ASRAAM, which you have predictably claimed is French designed and Made, even though the contract was awarded to the British subsidiary along with every other British missile system such as Rapier and Milan… http://www.britainusa.com/sections/articles_show.asp?SarticleType=1&Article_ID=2607&i=117 Another reference to the production of Seawolf Block 2 at Lostock: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200001/cmhansrd/vo010508/text/10508w04.htm Meteor: http://www.mod.uk/dpa/news/pn2002/dec02/typhoon_missile.htm “For maintenance and sale support” If you say so…They actually manufacture and assemble the hydraulic unit and four stage axial compressor for the TRI60-30, the engine that powers both the SCALP-EG and Storm Shadow, using version 5 of the Catia 3D CAD/CAM software.
 
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french stratege    RE:casom   12/16/2004 2:18:21 PM
I said :The only mbda product designed and build in UK mainly are brimstone, dedale, Asraam, seawolf, Rapier and Jernas.Can you read properly , please! And you would notice in the previous link that French subsidiary is entirely responsible for Stormshadow and Scalp.I would not search a better proof on internet than senat reports or mbda site, during days to prove you further a fact I perfectly know.
 
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Yimmy    Rapier   12/16/2004 2:57:57 PM
Getting back to the topic a bit; why was Rapier never used on Royal Navy warships? It is a capable missile; why did the navy adopt Sea Wolf instead? Crotale is a similar missile to Rapier, and the French stuck it on their ships. If Sea Wolf is such a superior missile to Rapier; why did we not adopt a land version of it instead? Also, why did we equipe our ships with harpoon rather than Sea Eagle, which seems to be superior, at least where paper statistics are concerned?
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:casom   12/16/2004 3:45:49 PM
“I said :The only mbda product designed and build in UK mainly are brimstone, dedale, Asraam, seawolf, Rapier and Jernas.Can you read properly , please!” Oh I can read perfectly well, perhaps you aught to know that in English grammar, one should take a new line after the completion of a list…and to leave a space at the end of a sentence. “And you would notice in the previous link that French subsidiary is entirely responsible for Stormshadow and Scalp.” It doesn’t say that, if that is the case is the Italian division entirely responsible for Aster? “I would not search a better proof on internet than senat reports or mbda site, during days to prove you further a fact I perfectly know.” Trouble is none of your links has said that Storm Shadow is actually made in France… Again my point about shared development stands…“The contract for the development and production of Storm Shadow was placed with Matra BAe Dynamics (UK) Ltd in February 1997 after a competitive tender exercise. This was one of the first contracts to be placed with this contractor. Matra BAe Dynamics (UK) Ltd is a subsidiary of Matra BAe Dynamics SAS, a company jointly owned by BAe plc and Lagardere SCA. Matra BAe Dynamics (France) Ltd has won the SCALP EG contract from the French Government. SCALP EG is the same weapon as Storm Shadow apart from national aspects related to both countries. The two parts of Matra BAe Dynamics act as separate Prime Contractors and hold the individual Storm Shadow and SCALP EG contracts for their respective national Governments. This has resulted in an industry collaborative programme that has undertaken certain aspects of the work normally handled by both Governments, such as the harmonisation of national requirements and the merging of national procurement methods. These aspects are exclusively carried out by Matra BAe Dynamics by a fully integrated French and UK management and engineering team. The two similar, but not identical, Government technical requirements have been fully harmonised into a single common technical solution. This common solution is shared by the subcontractors who only have a single subcontract which embraces the joint requirements. This has resulted in a collaborative programme which is largely transparent to both Governments, and attracts little of the procurement overheads often associated with Government collaborative programmes. This approach has also had the added benefit of driving down costs and enabled both Governments to obtain more weapons for their money.” http://www.armedforces.co.uk/projects/raq3f549e5ccceb2 “The missile, developed jointly in Britain and France, will initially be supplied to Italy and the United Arab Emirates as well.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1145833.stm http://news.mod.uk/news/press/news_press_notice.asp?newsItem_id=337 “Matra of BAe Dynamics has already formed a further relationship with DASA's LFK subsidiary, and the adoption of Meteor will bring France, Germany, Sweden, Italy and Spain into the project. During the 1996 missile campaign, BAe stressed that it was important for the company to win two or three competitions in order to retain critical mass in key technology areas. Only Storm Shadow was awarded, so Meteor remains vital to the future of the United Kingdom's missile capability and to the retention of long-term jobs at Stevenage and at Lostock.” http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo971203/debtext/71203-01.htm
 
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