One more question:

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Subject: One more question:
45-Shooter 5/13/2013 8:58:31 PM

Does anyone here know why smaller recip engines make more power per cubic inch displacement than larger recip engines? Or why larger engines get better fuel economy than smaller engines of the same power?

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oldbutnotwise 6/28/2013 5:04:37 PM

the point preicely you build for the job its likely to do! and larger capacity gives you that edge but at a cost, over here we used to have production car racing where 1275cc mini coopers raced and often beat 427 cu. inch galaxies
If I get to pick the track, I can absolutely guarantee that my car will beat your whatever every time!

arrogant twit, you have no idea what I have and you claim that, it shows what a prat you are, firstly I doubt you have a car that can do 100mph let alone 170

Lets see what happens when we try that contest on a longer track with fewer corners? Will your 1275 Mini-Cooper go 170 MPH?

no but neither will your galaxy

As a separate aside, look up Leonard Vahscholtz to find out what he did with a 427 Ford in the mid 70s

yes running turbocharges and non pump petrol and you talk about apples and oranges

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45-Shooter 6/29/2013 1:20:57 AM

as to your big blocks against smaller engine motors look what happened when Lotus went to Indy unless you have long straights a European car will always beat a US that why all the best US sports were from Britain, your GT40 your Cobra your DFV all British designs
How did the Corvettes do over there the last half dozen years or so at Le Mans? Or was it a decade or so? How have British cars done in the various "Show Room Stock" classes by price, in the unlimited class? See below.

Pratt & Miller Engineering and Fabrication

Based in New Hudson, Michigan, they have been one of General Motors official racing teams since 1999 when they were key in the development of the Chevrolet Corvette C5-R. Today, Pratt & Miller constructs, maintains, and runs the American Le Mans Series Corvette Racing team with Chevrolet Corvette C6.R as well as the Speed World Challenge Team Cadillac CTS-Vs. The company also builds and maintains the Pontiac GTO.Rs and Pontiac GXP.Rs for various teams in the Rolex Sports Car Series. The company also did work on the development of the Qvale Mangusta and Ford GT.

Since their alliance with General Motors, Pratt & Miller have won numerous championships and famous racing events. Corvette Racing has won their class at the 24 Hours of Le Mans seven times, claimed the overall victory at the Rolex 24 at Daytona in 2001, and won seven straight American Le Mans Series championships. Team Cadillac won the 2005 Speed World Challenge in the team's debut season, while The Racer's Group, running Pratt & Miller-built Pontiac GTO.Rs, won the Rolex Sports Car Series championship in 2006. GM Racing's Katech-built LS7.R small-block engine was also named the 2006 Global Motorsport Engine of the Year. Katech built the C5-R and LS7.R engines that powered the C5-R and C6.R Corvettes in the GTS/GT1 classes of ALMS and the 24 Hours of Le Mans. After Le Mans 2009, Corvette Racing switched to the GT2 class and decided to bring the engine builds in-house.

Pratt & Miller developed a road-going tuned version of the Chevrolet Corvette C6 named C6RS. The C6RS was powered by a 500 cubic inch LS-based engine developed and built by Katech Inc.

Will your 1275 Mini-Cooper go 170 MPH?

no but neither will your galaxy
Well yes it will, but actually it is much faster than 180.

As a separate aside, look up Leonard Vahscholtz to find out what he did with a 427 Ford in the mid 70s

yes running turbocharges and non pump petrol and you talk about apples and oranges
You've got me there, everything I own is normally aspirated, runs on PUMP GAS and blows through Catalytic Converters! ( Except for some of the old pre-smog Hondas.) I take it your Mini has a huffer and sucks race gas? No wonder you think it might be fast enough to keep up with some of my cars. ( Have you looked at a '93-97 Camaro, or Dodge Intrepid to gage their aerodynamics?)

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marat,jean 6/29/2013 3:30:17 AM

What has a puff piece about P&M got to do with you or your dishonesty or your ignorance about how ICE motors work?

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oldbutnotwise 6/29/2013 3:46:26 PM

what like the Aston Martins? the TVRs or other European motors like the Porsche etc etc, how many US "sports" cars win at actual road circuits? all US cars are just oversized engines in rubbish chassis

Pratt & Miller Engineering and Fabrication

Pratt & Miller developed a road-going tuned version of the Chevrolet Corvette C6 named C6RS. The C6RS was powered by a 500 cubic inch LS-based engine developed and built by Katech Inc.

impressive but not a patch on the record of the European race teams

Will your 1275 Mini-Cooper go 170 MPH?

No but it will go round a corner

no but neither will your galaxy
Well yes it will, but actually it is much faster than 180.

not unless you got one of the 500 limited edition models

As a separate aside, look up Leonard Vahscholtz to find out what he did with a 427 Ford in the mid 70s

yes running turbocharges and non pump petrol and you talk about apples and oranges
You've got me there, everything I own is normally aspirated,

but not Leonard's were they

runs on PUMP GAS and blows through Catalytic Converters! ( Except for some of the old pre-smog Hondas.) I take it your Mini has a huffer and sucks race gas?

nope they ran twin webbers and pump fuel

No wonder you think it might be fast enough to keep up with some of my cars. ( Have you looked at a '93-97 Camaro, or Dodge Intrepid to gage their aerodynamics?)

No sensible person would buy a US car for use in England you cant use the power as its all in the wrong place and they corner worse than a reliant robin

what next from you, how much you earn? how big your muscles are? how you used to date Marilyn Monroe? you have no credit in this regards

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Heorot MPG 6/29/2013 7:58:05 PM

I noted an argument above somewhere on the MPG you could get out of a S2000. You should be aware that when a Brit refers to MPG, the gallons are Imperial, When a Yank does, he is referring to the lower volume US gallon. There's your discrepancy right there.

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45-Shooter 6/30/2013 12:32:03 PM

ICE motors is an Oxi-moron. ICE relates to "Engines" which are a different class of device than "Motors". But that has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.
The question is why do small engines make more power per unit of displacement than larger motors? See prior post to find the simple answer.

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45-Shooter 6/30/2013 1:27:12 PM

No but it will go round a corner Races are won on the straights, not in the corners!
no but neither will your galaxy
Well yes it will, but actually it is much faster than 180.
First, just to be perfectly clear, it was you who brought up the Galaxy/G-500, not me. Back when they were racing that "Stock" car at Riverside, there were not many/any small foreign sports cars that could catch it! Check the lap times if you doubt this.

Secondly, I am now a Camaro guy. It is and has since 1982 been know as one of the best handling American or even world wide cars on the road. While it has a live solid rear axel, the now universal use of extremely wide and sticky tires since the mid sixties have done much to mitigate that disadvantage.
not unless you got one of the 500 limited edition models

As a separate aside, look up Leonard Vahscholtz to find out what he did with a 427 Ford in the mid 70s

yes running turbocharges and non pump petrol and you talk about apples and oranges
You've got me there, everything I own is normally aspirated,

but not Leonard's were they? Well, yes it was a naturally aspirated 427 Ford Side oiler with two four barrel carbs. And, it ran on pump gas!

nope they ran twin webbers and pump fuel OH!, you mean the old original Mini-Coopers! I raced against several of them in the early '70s when I had a '69 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe'! I left them ALL in the dust at half a dozen Battlefield Region Sports Car Club Auto-cross events, even though they were a class up from me! Several times each! Do you think those old Minis could hold a candle to my much newer Camaro? Right!

No wonder you think it might be fast enough to keep up with some of my cars. ( Have you looked at a '93-97 Camaro, or Dodge Intrepid to gage their aerodynamics?) Never answered this one!

No sensible person would buy a US car for use in England you cant use the power as its all in the wrong place and they corner worse than a reliant robin Do they buy and drive big fast Benzes, XJ-6/12s, or??? over in England?

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marat,jean 6/30/2013 1:55:00 PM

You are incorrect. And as you do not KNOW that a motor is a device that converts stationary work into motion, it is not surprising that you would make that simple error.

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45-Shooter 6/30/2013 2:10:38 PM

No, not actually! When driven on the street, the mileage depends on how hard you drive it. It will not get anywhere near that mileage if driven really hard. No car does! My '97 Camaro goes from just over 25 MPG out on the super highway at a cruise controlled 85 MPH in 5th gear, to around 17-18 MPG driven VERY GENTLY in town. Not that you could keep up in a Mini. That mileage drops to 10-12 MPG if I even beguine to think of goosing it more than once or twice in a 10-12 mile trip to the hardware store and back. On the track, I am lucky to get 4-5 MPG! Honestly! 4-5 MPG!
How it works is that ALL Recip engines have a "Sweet Spot" in the SFC Curve where the increased efficiency of higher RPM gets better "Ram" tuning and the increased friction of higher RPM starts to drag efficiency down. Gearing for that lowest portion of the curve delivers 50-200% better "Specific Fuel Consumption" than at other
RPM choices. However, SFC is only part of the program. If you gear for that "Sweet Spot" the car will go as fast as it can while delivering the most MPG/MPH! In my car, that is about 85 MPH in fifth gear at just under 2,700 RPMs.

Around town, it is an all together different story. You have to speed up and slow down to keep pace with traffic. Then the other parts of the SFC curve come into play and that is where a naturally aspirated big block engine in a small car gains a terrific and terrible advantage! Think of all that power in a car with an all up weight under 3,500 pounds! Or only 300 pounds more than a Porsche Boxster!

The SFC curve shows how much fuel is burned to produce each HP. When the car/engine is at that "Sweet Spot" mentioned above, it burns less than 0.4 pounds of fuel to make each Horse Power for one hour! Around town, the RPMs are very low and the engine burns more than 0.5 pounds to make each HP. ( Just guessing!) But the 595 Ft-Lbs of Torque on hand at only 1500 RPMs means that the car pulls away from stop lights smartly and with authority that no small car can match, at least at any kind of RPMs that will not get them arrested for "street racing". 0-60 in well under 7 seconds, with one shift, and never going over 3,000 RPMs, or squealing the tires! Welcome to my world!

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oldbutnotwise 6/30/2013 2:16:44 PM

No but it will go round a corner Races are won on the straights, not in the corners!
Actually no races are usually won in the corners (except in the us where they bank the corners to make them virtual straights) which is why all open wheel formula follow the European model

no but neither will your galaxy
Well yes it will, but actually it is much faster than 180.
First, just to be perfectly clear, it was you who brought up the Galaxy/G-500, not me. Back when they were racing that "Stock" car at Riverside, there were not many/any small foreign sports cars that could catch it! Check the lap times if you doubt this.

and check that of Goodwood etc where those little European sports cars would consistently beat them

Secondly, I am now a Camaro guy. It is and has since 1982 been know as one of the best handling American or even world wide cars on the road.

joke, Camaro a good handling car? you need to try more cars if you think a Camaro handles

While it has a live solid rear axel, the now universal use of extremely wide and sticky tires since the mid sixties have done much to mitigate that disadvantage.

solid rear axles are a joke, no serious sports car has had one of those for 40 years and wide and sticky tyres does not make uo for bad design

As a separate aside, look up Leonard Vahscholtz to find out what he did with a 427 Ford in the mid 70s

yes running turbocharges and non pump petrol and you talk about apples and oranges
You've got me there, everything I own is normally aspirated,

but not Leonard's were they? Well, yes it was a naturally aspirated 427 Ford Side oiler with two four barrel carbs. And, it ran on pump gas!

No wonder you think it might be fast enough to keep up with some of my cars. ( Have you looked at a '93-97 Camaro, or Dodge Intrepid to gage their aerodynamics?) Never answered this one!

why should I as I don't actual believe you have these cars anyone can claim anything but your honesty has never been trustworthy

yes as they unlike yank tanks actually corner so are actually useable

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