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Subject: Missile tactics versus gun tactics.
Maratabc    4/26/2013 1:07:57 PM
This will be a discussion of why the Americans and British made a serious technical error in the 1950s and 1960s.
 
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45-Shooter    Reply, part 2!   7/25/2013 10:38:16 PM

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_bomb_loads.htm )
The link does not work. But the Lanc's fuselage is only 5' wide to the outside skin panels! See the plans in the link I posted, which does work! Also note that the bomb bay is not 5' wide to the inside of the doors/hinges! While you would have saddled me with a 6" per side thickness of the doors, when they are hinged outside the bay on the lower wing surface about 5" from the edge of the bomb bay, I actually measured the width of the Lanc's bay! It is about 4'-2" wide between the hinges. Live with it, or post a link that works with dimensioned plans, not operational planning drawings that are not to scale!
 
it also took a 4000lbs cookie which was 2'6" so allowing for shackles and clearance I would think my 3' bomb bay is more likely than your 2'5" (and don't even think about claiming that the cookie needed the bulged because it didn't)
So the 2.5' dimension that I posted was wrong because it could not take a 2.5' diameter bomb? From Wiki; An important feature of the Lancaster was its unobstructed, 33 ft (10 m) long, bomb bay. At first, the heaviest bomb carried was the 4,000 lb (1,800 kg) high capacity HC "Cookie".[19] Bulged doors were added to 30% of B Is to allow the aircraft to carry 8,000 lb (3,600 kg) and later 12,000 lb (5,400 kg) "Cookies". Note that the 8,000 pound "Cookie". Which is only 38" in diameter does not fit WO the bulged doors! So it is not possible that there was as much as 3' between the ceiling and the inside of the door and your idea is thus disproven!

now your width, the Lancaster could take 3x 1000lbs across the bay, each one of these is 18 inches wide, that's 4'6"  that already exceeds your number before you allow for clearance
You should note that the British 1000 pound bomb is only about 15" OD buy 65", not as fat as the American bomb because it was designed when external carriage was the norm. See this pic at Wiki links; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lancaster_bomb_bay_Jan_1944_IWM_CH_18554.jpg Note how the crewman standing at the aft bulkhead of the bomb bay is so wide comp'd with the total width of the bay. The average person is about 8.3" thick, but the man in the pic is standing about 30 degrees angle off and thus is maybe 10-11" wide at his shoulders? Also note that his hips which are much narrower and their relation to the total width of the bay! Also note the curvature of the outer bomb bay, both at the fuse and the sides of the doors in the foreground! This pic proves my points!
you just cannot accept that you are wrong even when provided with evidence I like how your evidence link does not work and mine does.
you come back with made up numbers without a single shred of proof Like the link to the Blueprints I posted? you just need the Lancaster to be inferior even when all evidence and even history shows that it wasn'tUse your brain to think about history.
 



 
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45-Shooter    Reply, part 2!   7/25/2013 10:42:03 PM

You do know why the M-61 was chosen for PHALANX?
Because the front barrel clamp can be changed to one where all six BBLs are adjusted to fire at the same point!, Dispersion about 2.5 mills.
 
Dispersion (SARCASM). I laugh at your ignorance.
Sarcasm, I cry at yours!
 
 

 

 

 



 
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marat,jean       7/25/2013 10:43:21 PM
The link works. I suggest that you didn't like what you read, Stewie. 
 
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marat,jean       7/25/2013 10:45:09 PM
You think that anyone will believe that made up lie, Stewie? Are you that stupid?



You do know why the M-61 was chosen for PHALANX?



Because the front barrel clamp can be changed to one where all six BBLs are adjusted to fire at the same point!, Dispersion about 2.5 mills.

 
Dispersion (SARCASM). I laugh at your ignorance.
Sarcasm, I cry at yours!
 
 

 

 

 



 
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45-Shooter    Reply, part 2!   7/25/2013 10:57:29 PM

 You have gun camera footage of ADEN, DEFA, and VULCAN gun kills of Mig 21s right in front of you, Stewie, that proves that you are clueless and ignorant  of subject. (all about 2/4 kilometer or less.)I have seen all of that film before and the vast majority are missile kills. Secondly, none of those kills are as far as 1000 Meters range, except "possibly" the one with the Mig 21 going left to right in the bottom of the frame as the missile comes across and blows it up! Look closely! It is easy to see the missiles come into the frame, most of the time!
 
You cut and paste person, don't you realize that I chose that video I cited with the examples in it  knowing you would lie and that you were too unintelligent to know that everyone could use the camera reticule markers to gauge the average RANGE?
You ignoramus? You are ignorant of the fact that the circle on the reticle is adjusted to the wing span of the target at the range where the ToF as measured by the ranging function of the sighting system when in the guns mode! Also when using missiles, it is adjusted to the size of the missile tracking angle, or the bore sight acquisition angle depending on the type of sight and what poss the switches are set.
 
You are quite ignorant, Stewie, about ballistics and physics and the TRUTH.  
No, you are self important and ignorant of most of the things you write about as shown by the above post. See the chapter on guns in Shaw's book on ACM!
 
This is why you are scorned, your utter cluelessness  ... that in addition to your lying and dishonesty.   
I am scorned by ignorami like you who are too narrow minded, or more likely mindless to see the point of the ideas I espouse! Or who oppose then on Nationalistic pride grounds. So which are you, a Nationalistic Fanatic, Idiot, or an Ignoramus?


 
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45-Shooter    Link still KO'd!   7/25/2013 11:05:46 PM

No it does not. There is a typo, or some other defect in the link as posted!

 
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45-Shooter       7/25/2013 11:07:36 PM
If they do not, they are idiots, because it is the truth! See Janes Naval Weapons Systems!





You do know why the M-61 was chosen for PHALANX?






Because the front barrel clamp can be changed to one where all six BBLs are adjusted to fire at the same point!, Dispersion about 2.5 mills.


 
Dispersion (SARCASM). I laugh at your ignorance.
Sarcasm, I cry at yours!
 
 

 

 

 





 
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marat,jean       7/25/2013 11:39:10 PM
The link works fine. You are making excuses trying to lie again.
 
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marat,jean       7/25/2013 11:42:31 PM
And you lie some more, plus reveal you do not understand what you see. You are that stupid? I mean seriously... you are that stupid? 
You ignoramus? You are ignorant of the fact that the circle on the reticle is adjusted to the wing span of the target at the range where the ToF as measured by the ranging function of the sighting system when in the guns mode! Also when using missiles, it is adjusted to the size of the missile tracking angle, or the bore sight acquisition angle depending on the type of sight and what poss the switches are set.
 
You are quite ignorant, Stewie, about ballistics and physics and the TRUTH.  
No, you are self important and ignorant of most of the things you write about as shown by the above post. See the chapter on guns in Shaw's book on ACM!
 
This is why you are scorned, your utter cluelessness  ... that in addition to your lying and dishonesty.   
I am scorned by ignorami like you who are too narrow minded, or more likely mindless to see the point of the ideas I espouse! Or who oppose then on Nationalistic pride grounds. So which are you, a Nationalistic Fanatic, Idiot, or an Ignoramus?


 
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marat,jean       7/25/2013 11:54:10 PM
 
The gun vibrates, you incompetent. 
 
And Janes does not say what you claim, liar. 



If they do not, they are idiots, because it is the truth! See Janes Naval Weapons Systems!













You do know why the M-61 was chosen for PHALANX?















Because the front barrel clamp can be changed to one where all six BBLs are adjusted to fire at the same point!, Dispersion about 2.5 mills.





 
Dispersion (SARCASM). I laugh at your ignorance.
Sarcasm, I cry at yours!
 
 

 

 

 








 
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