Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: F-35 vs. Eurofighter
IAFbestinworld    8/13/2004 11:49:07 PM
Lockheed says that besides the f-22, the f-35 will be the best air to air fighter in the future, is this true? Could an f-35 take a Eurofighter? My opinion says yes since f-35 contains more stealthy characteristics.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46   NEXT
T800m101    RE:French strategic and jsf?- hellfire   2/3/2005 6:08:30 PM
I believe he meant APG-63, just a typo I think..
 
Quote    Reply

T800m101    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/3/2005 6:20:32 PM
Quote : "I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE!" "If you knew , you wouldn 't put the F-16/18/15 series against Rafale or Typhoon " I wouldn't put and F-16 or a heritage F/A-18 against a Rafale or Typhoon, but a later model F-15C with AESA radar and an F/A-18E/F in my opinion would have a pretty good chance against them, as of right now they have some obvious advantages, AIM-9X with JHMQS, better BVR missiles, and better radars..
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    F-35 easly beats ANYTHING other than F-22   2/3/2005 7:31:32 PM
No question. A good analogy is a knife fight in the dark where one of the fighters has night vision device and a gun.
 
Quote    Reply

Shooter    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 12:00:39 AM
When compairing planes, one of the most significant factors is MTO, or Maximum Takeoff Weight. At well over 66/68,000 pounds either the F/A-18E or F-15C would have LESS than 6% of the MTO as the bombs. At less than 48,000 and 51,000 pounds each those two Mk-84's would be 8.3% and 7.9% of their respective MTO's. If the F-15 has <5.7% compaired to >8.3% of the MTO, that equates to a 146% diference in ratio. The two Mk-84's are thus a great deal less intrusive on either the F/A-18E or F-15C than they are on the euro Canard Delta's. When you figure in the extra tanks required to reach the same range of either of the two US planes has a very significant advantage in T/D and T/W. In addition, none of the Euro Canard Delta's is supersonic AT ANY THROTTLE SETTING when carring three tanks! A condition they require to match the range of either the F/A-18E-F or F-15C-E with one 610 galon tank on the center line. Both of wich ARE supersonic equiped that way! In fact the F-15 has enough thrust to exceed Mach 2.0 at 36,000' with the Centerline tank and four Sparrows! ( Or AIM-120's) In addition the bi-pass ratio is much higher in either american plane than in either Rafale or Typhoon. The Grippen has an American engine similar to that in the F/A-18, with modifications to reduce the BPR. Almost as high as that in the RB-199 a great engine by any standard. In addition, the aerodynamic choices made to give high dogfight performance substantialy reduce the off design peamiters, such as cruise and payload/range. The aspect ratio of the F/A-18E-F and F-15all is about 3.5-6 to one. The ECD's are all around two point five/one. The canards also induce turbulence that aids maneuver but hurts cruise. All of these choises mean that none of them has any great advantage over F/A-18E-F and fall substantialy behind the latest F-15C. Where the ECD's have T/W's around 1/1 bare and .85/1 with tanks the F-15C is >1.3/1 without the center line tank and over 1.16/1 with it. ( A figure that none of the ECD's can match when equiped with an equivilant war load. Although Typhoon is far and away the best of the ECD's it's best armed T/W is only <1.08/1) T/W IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF DOG FIGHTING AND NONE OF THE EURO CANARD DELTA'S CAN MATCH THE F-15c! When combined with supirior aerodynamics and aspect ratio, none of the ECDs can turn and burn with the F-15 for more than 90 degrees of turn. But what most fail to see is that the Avionics in either US plane is substantialy more advanced than anything in any of the other planes sited. Either the most current APG-63 or the newer APG-70 is capable of substantialy better performance than the future radars that will be mounted in the ECD's! Current F-15C's over Freiburg have tracted Rafales over Troyes in France. I do not see a single instance of any of the ECD's tracking anything much smaller than a 747 at even a third that range. When you can Lock up an enemy fighter well over 150 Nautical Miles away, it gives you a tremendious advantage! Don't you think? You all still think that aero performance has something to do with combat effectiveness? I dought that any of them can dodge a missile that is aready locked on. Look first, shoot first and leave first means that lots of ECD's would die without seeing their attackers. I am going out west next month and I will see if any of the Euros have come over for our marvelious flying weather or to use the ranges. I dought that any of them will have shown anything starteling.
 
Quote    Reply

Shooter    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 12:42:24 AM
RE:French strategic and jsf? 2/3/2005 6:20:33 PM Quote : "I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE!" "If you knew , you wouldn 't put the F-16/18/15 series against Rafale or Typhoon " I wouldn't put and F-16 or a heritage F/A-18 against a Rafale or Typhoon, but a later model F-15C with AESA radar and an F/A-18E/F in my opinion would have a pretty good chance against them, as of right now they have some obvious advantages, AIM-9X with JHMQS, better BVR missiles, and better radars. I never included the F-16 or F/A-18a-d in that mix because they are primarily bomb trucks. I did specify the E/F models of the -18 and the -15C in my post. However, in combat the F-16 or F/A-18 any, has a significant advantage in it's radar over the ECDs. The F-16's radar is to weak and with a small antena, just like the ECDs to traid shots at BVR rages. But in a close in knife style dogfight either will have a significant advantage in radar operational ease that will confere a true advantage on them. None of the Euro CD's has demonstraited the radar modes we take for granted from the mid seventies in the American planes. This is something compleatly over looked in these discussions. It is a major factor and not easily overcome. That all of the ECD's are looking at AESA type antenas is proof that they know they are behind and that the have to do something radical to catch up. I still have not read ANYTHING that hints that any non US plane has more than a few of the radar operational modes that have been standard since the mid seventies here. Some of those modes are absolutely devistating when used in the right combat venue. In addition the T/W of the F-16C is 1.06/1 and features a recumbent seat that makes it the ultimate turn and burn plane? Niether of the ECDs have it and that means that the f-16 enjoys about a TWO GEE sustained advantage over them. What good is a 9 g plane when the pilot in the ECDs will have tunnel vision at 7? This is another significant advantage. It is all of this small stuff that makes huge differences in combat and if you look at the specifications planes like the Mirage, Mig-29 and Su-27/35 look great! But in the real world, they are all dog meat for F-16s and 15s which have shot down hundreds with out a loss in A-A combat.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 11:11:07 AM
Shooter , get out from your little World and open your eyes . There are inexactitudes in every phrase you say . It is obvious that you know very little about the Europeans Fighters . And tell me , if your actual fleet was STILL superior you wouldn 't need F-35/22 , don 't you ? And where the hell did you shotdown hundreds of Mirage2000/Mig-29s/SU-27/35 ??? All you are is a US Cowboy who dreams about his old guns ... Each time Rafale had a go at your Navy birds it was a rampage EVEN if the US REFUSE to fight BVR ... Each time Rafale had a go at your F-16s it was a rampage too . And each time Rafale 's SPECTRA hasn 't been used because of "unfairness" to your birds . Even against Mirage-2005 your pilots reported to have a hell of a time to simply get a fire solution because of French countermesures/ECM . It has also been reported than SU-30 had the advantage over F-15 in BVR ... Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 1:03:14 PM
Bluewings, you are like your own information ministry. I know that I'm a American enthusiast with very baised opinions. But my assertions are always backed up by facts or at the least a link with credibility. Try it some times. Because your last post is BS. Those ECD would die by the hundreds against current US a/c.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 4:24:40 PM
You get your ass kicked against the Indian Air Force and you want to take the ECD's on ??!! Pleaaase ... Wake up Gixxx , the US tactic of having a wall of F-15s rolling forward is the testimony of your overconfidence and your downfall . It DOES NOT work . When you go against someone capable who THINK , you loose every time . Because you think you have the biggest guns and the best toys you put your personal at risk , as some US pilots said in few occasions . NONE US Aircraft ever downed a Rafale during join excercises . Neither over your soil when Rafale was testing in the USA deck landing and dogfight manoevrability (vs. F-15/16s), neither over the Ocean when our Navy work together (vs . Superbug) . The ECD's are very capable Aircrafts ~understatement~ and have NO match yet in many areas . I am not trying to bash F-22/35 as I do like them very much , even if I think the F-35 seems a wee bit "light weight" to me . What is ennoying me is the arrogance who blinds you from seeing the truth . You see life through a "stars & Stripes" kaleidoscope . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/4/2005 5:38:38 PM
Well when I compare the success of Stars and Stripes to anything else, its hard not to. But in any event our a/c are still the best of the best. You can keep your false joint excersice results. I'll stick to my F-15C 100+:1 kill ratio in ACTUAL COMBAT. Now that we have the F-35 and F-22, I expect to see the same results.
 
Quote    Reply

karlos    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/5/2005 12:21:24 PM
Sorry to say none chance eagle sees the other contemporary AFs now because her RCS is hundreds times bigger no matter how her detection range is longer. Rafale and EF's RCS are less than 1 but F-15's 10~400. Be aware that only chance given to eagle is that her detection range has to be 3~10 times longer than ECDs.
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics