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Subject: Does anyone here believe this stuff?
45-Shooter    12/29/2011 6:46:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M&feature=related Can anyone here tell me what is wrong with this video?
 
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heraldabc       12/29/2011 8:24:43 PM
 
The computer simulation was a worst case unrealistic one involving idiot assumptions and idiot tactics by both sides..
 
H.
 
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45-Shooter    It was a retorical question!   12/29/2011 8:58:01 PM



 

The computer simulation was a worst case unrealistic one involving idiot assumptions and idiot tactics by both sides..

 

H.



 
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heraldabc    It is spelled 'rhetorical'.   12/30/2011 12:50:02 AM
And it was my sarcastic (note the spelling of the adjective 'sarcastic' which has no 'z'  in it? Neither does sarcasm.) reply
 
H.
 
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BWisBack       12/30/2011 10:03:56 PM
I disagre with the computer study but I also disagree with Herald .
 
I disagree with Herald because he is pushung the "cons" of the study with one hand while his other hand is in front of his eyes .
I disagree with the study because it is simply impossible to compute such fog of war .
 
That being said , it is true that the F-35 will be a very poor dogfighter (if it ever exist operationaly) . It is a flying brick with poor wing loading , its intantaneous turn rate will be poor , it will be out-climbed in the vertical plane by any Flanker out there and for sure , it can 't run . It is short legged , it has an enormous IR signature and its overal RF stealth is already compromised .
It 's laaate , it 's not working and it 's overpriced . All in all , the worse fighter program in the US history . 
And it 's not over yet ...
 
Many shares the same view (not just me) . I really hope that the entire program goes down the drain because the people behind it is simply greedy and incompetent . The F-35 program is a crook based treachery .
They tried to make big money while sinking some of their allies aviation industry but they did worse : they fooled the USAF and the USN !
I shouldn 't be sarcastic as the USA is an Ally , but ...
They had it wrong from the vey begining , what they should have done is a slightly bigger F-22 (a la J-20) , capable to fly fast with big a big load of fuel and a big load of internal weapons . That would have been a fighter-stiker and not a jack of nothing . The F-22 is twenty years older than the "JSF" but it beats the crap out of it in any mission I can think of !
Don 't you agree , Herald ?
For once , I 'm sure you do !
Now , some talk about powerful Aesa radars (the other sides also have Aesa) , about EODAS , about powerful ECMs , etc ... Well , what 's the point if you can 't turn and run and come back again because your aircraft is sluggish and under-armed ??? And if you are called WVR by a Flanker with HMD , you are toast . Its energy and astonishing flight characteristics will kill you 9 times out of 10 .
There isn 't a lot of multirole fightesr out there capable to engage a Flanker in WVR , only 2 (the F-22 is not a multirole fighter so guess the other 2) .
Russian fighters are often underrated when they are in fact deadly opponents with a good pilot . Here in France , we don 't fear the occidental jets because we know them and we know how to deal with them , we fear the Flanker series . We worked a couple of times with the Indians Su-30s and even if it was "light" , we had a good look at it and ... it works .
Sometimes it is not during an exercise , like when this Flanker came too close to the CdG , soon shadowed by 2 Rafale M F1s.
 
http://i44.tinypic.com/1059w5s.jpg" /> 
 
We in Europe often train with the "beast" :
 
http://i40.tinypic.com/1z2efev.jpg" /> 
 
http://i44.tinypic.com/zjcb2f.jpg" /> 
 
http://i43.tinypic.com/nmhv1f.jpg" /> 
 
They are beautiful aircraft and the onboard "gizmos" shouldn 't be underestimated  , if you ask me ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 
 
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BWisBack       12/30/2011 10:14:18 PM
By the way , some can have a look at canard designs who work (closed-coupled) and those who don 't work as good , did I say "Typhoon" ?
 
Dassault and Sukhoi know what they are doing .
 
Cheers .
 
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Reactive       12/30/2011 10:15:40 PM
The correct reply to nearly all of what you say is "you don't know what you are talking about".
 
But more specifically, HOBS etc.. There's no point going into any specifics regarding your post as you are pathologically incapable of debating from any perspective other than that of a fanboy, to pretend otherwise is ludicrous, I guess you know something that every JSF program partner doesn't regarding its performance, you have decided based on no evidence that the F-35 has a "huge" IR signature, that it is not VLO in the radar spectrum, basically just completely unsupported bullshit from a serial bullshitter.
 
It is your intelligence and understanding that is lacking, not that of LM's design and engineering teams.
 
And that is the Dunning-Kruger effect plain and simple.
 
 
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Reactive       12/30/2011 10:30:37 PM
Also I like how you say "we know how to deal with them".
 
When you say "we", you mean "people of whom you have never had any contact who exist in your imagination".
 
You seem to be caught up in this bullshit world of dogfighting for some reason, you refuse to acknowledge any of the developments in situational awareness and missile guidance that (for example) make engagements possible behind the wing-line possible... 
 
Largely irrelevant in a world of highly networked sensing with VLO platforms.
 
Grow up dude, seriously, how old are you?
 
 
 
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BWisBack       12/30/2011 11:13:44 PM
Keep up the good work Reactive , forget the points I am trying to raise and kill the messenger , like a good american poster .
 
You are right , it is easier than to defend a problem plagued prototype against a present or futur Flanker ...
If one would post and resume all the problems and shortcoming of the F-35 , one would need a lot of ink or a lot of typing .
But hey , better try to bash BW . No luck , I rest my case .
Try that : 1 AWAC + Flankers vs 1 AWAC + F-35s , both teams are american pilots . What 's the outcome ?
Don 't tell me , I already know
 
Cheers .
 
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Reactive       12/31/2011 4:14:22 AM
No, you know jack shit, as has been evident in virtually every "contribution" you have made on this forum. 
 
 
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heraldabc    What he said   12/31/2011 9:17:59 AM
Here in France , we don 't fear the occidental jets because we know them and we know how to deal with them.
 
First of all, you meant to say oriental jets. Russia and the PRC bandits are historically described as eastern to France, not west of it.
 
Second, a brief review of jet combat shows that the French have never engaged first class enemy air forces or even second class air forces in active combat since 1965. The USAF has.
 
As for how French aircraft actually do against American aircraft in WAR.
 
 
That is an EF-111
 
ROTFLMAO.
 
H.
 


The correct reply to nearly all of what you say is "you don't know what you are talking about".

 

But more specifically, HOBS etc.. There's no point going into any specifics regarding your post as you are pathologically incapable of debating from any perspective other than that of a fanboy, to pretend otherwise is ludicrous, I guess you know something that every JSF program partner doesn't regarding its performance, you have decided based on no evidence that the F-35 has a "huge" IR signature, that it is not VLO in the radar spectrum, basically just completely unsupported bullshit from a serial bullshitter.

 

It is your intelligence and understanding that is lacking, not that of LM's design and engineering teams.

 

And that is the Dunning-Kruger effect plain and simple.

 


 
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