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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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MK       11/16/2009 5:08:11 AM
I'm almost certain they will come up with "they were all fighting among the same side" against an "enemy". But let's see and not be to overly excited on that. ;)
 
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StevoJH       11/16/2009 5:50:16 AM

I'm almost certain they will come up with "they were all fighting among the same side" against an "enemy". But let's see and not be to overly excited on that. ;)

I'm guessing:
F22 V Typhoon
F22 V Rafale
Typhoon V Rafale
 
Remember the UAE is supposedly looking for new fighters. The F22's, along with the UAE F16's and M2K's would give a nice benchmark to compare the aircraft.
 
 
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french stratege       11/16/2009 6:40:23 AM
Sending an F22 to Paris means its RCS would be analyzed in detail by French Mod means.
Now if we see such a deployment, it probably means that UAE want to analyse performance of those fighter in detail including to see if Rafale of Eurofighter can match a F22 and so a F35.
 
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One Five Five Echo       11/16/2009 7:21:53 AM
The exercises already happened.  The exercise is called ATLC - Advanced Tactical Leadership Course - a UAE version of NATO TLP.  This year supposedly involved Pakistan, France, US, UK, and UAE.  Here is RAF XI squadron's writeup of last year's edition:
 
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On October 28 2008, XI Sqn left a rather gloomy Coningsby to participate in ATLC in the UAE.  The trail out to Al Dhafra Airbase was uneventful with a night stop in Akrotiri, Cyprus, on the way.

Al Dhafra is a joint UAE and USAF base which, whilst the home to the majority of the Emirates fast jet force, is also home to the US KC-10 air-air refuelling aircraft which is involved in both Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. Al Dhafra is situated approximately one hour away from the city of Abu Dhabi.

The exercise consisted of 7 Typhoons from XI Sqn, American F-15C Eagles , French Mirage 2000-5, Saudi F-15C Eagles, Emirates Mirage 2000-9 and F-16 Block 60 together with air-to-air refuelling aircraft and AWACS.  The aim of the exercise was to continue working on our Multi Role training whilst participating in a multi national, large scale exercise.  For those of you who are aware of TLP, this exercise is essentially the Middle Eastern version.  During the exercise 4 of our pilots were enrolled as ATLC course students, which provided them with training for 4 ship lead status and additional experience before starting the Multi Role Qualified Weapons Instructor Course in January 2009.

Our working day was split into two waves.  The first wave was the large-scale exercise and the second wave was our continuation training wave during which we could essentially devise our own sortie and choose where we wanted to concentrate our training. Week three of the four week exercise was dedicated to a night large-scale exercise which concentrated the mind to say the least.  The engineers, as always, did a sterling job and the jets behaved themselves extremely well out in the desert.

During the continuation training waves we carried out dissimilar air combat sorties with all aircraft types during which the Typhoon performed extremely well.  These sorties provided excellent training opportunities for everybody involved.

We were accommodated in the city of Abu Dhabi for the duration of the detachment.  Everybody enjoyed the local culture and there was a great deal of socialising as each nation took it in turns to organise an entertainment event during the course.

With Christmas just around the corner the Squadron is looking forward to some well earned rest before what is shaping up to be an extremely busy 2009.

On behalf of XI Squadron I wish you all the best for the festive period.

Regards,

Andy King

Flt Lt
 
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french stratege       11/16/2009 3:01:38 PM
I guess that F22 has benefited of Rafale deploiement to red flag to derisk a direct confrontation.
Or Eurofighter could be here to fight F22 then Rafale at at the end UAE get the results.
It is a problem if we have to use our best ECM vs a F22 which would sniff every trons.
 
Well maybe we should propose a real combat with real munitions including Mica IR (explosives could be removed to limit risks for pilots).
 
 
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Lynstyne       11/16/2009 3:16:12 PM

I guess that F22 has benefited of Rafale deploiement to red flag to derisk a direct confrontation.

Or Eurofighter could be here to fight F22 then Rafale at at the end UAE get the results.

It is a problem if we have to use our best ECM vs a F22 which would sniff every trons.

 

Well maybe we should propose a real combat with real munitions including Mica IR (explosives could be removed to limit risks for pilots).

 


Because 1/2 ton of missile wapping along at mach 3 wont hurt
 
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french stratege       11/16/2009 4:12:07 PM
First missile are 112 to 140 kg and often pass at a few meter distance to airframe and explode to proximity fuze.
Even in real combat, half pilots who aircraft is hit, eject and survive.
probability of being killed would probably be well under 10% chance if you remove explosives from missiles.
A real combat is the ultimate proof.
If you pay a pilot 2 million euros to add to patriotic commitments, I guess you would find a lot of volonteers.
Nothing if you compare to end contract value of maybe 10 billions.
 
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Lynstyne       11/16/2009 4:19:04 PM

First missile are 112 to 140 kg and often pass at a few meter distance to airframe and explode to proximity fuze.

Even in real combat, half pilots who aircraft is hit, eject and survive.

probability of being killed would probably be well under 10% chance if you remove explosives from missiles.

A real combat is the ultimate proof.

If you pay a pilot 2 million euros to add to patriotic commitments, I guess you would find a lot of volonteers.

Nothing if you compare to end contract value of maybe 10 billions.


The weight quoted was a random figure for comical effect it wasnt meant to be taken literally.
 
Now while im sure youre joing with the above suggestion - I will add in the spirit of statistics -youre failing to account for the risk of severe spinal injuries etc through ejecting.
 
 
 
 


 
 
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french stratege       11/16/2009 6:49:25 PM
I'm very interested to see a confrontation between a F22 and a Rafale evaluated by a neutral third party.
 
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jackjack       11/16/2009 7:24:14 PM
gee i wish i could get the drugs that you are on, its obviously good stuff. you're on a wild trip
 
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