Well, I'd argue it's not likely, but it's plausible, it only takes one of those "second rate iranian" missiles to sink or disable a carrier (they're not likely to be as damage resistanct as the nimitz class), surely we learned from the Falklands with exocet, that even nearly 30 years ago "second rate" countries could counfound our anti-missile systems simply because the damn things had never been properly tested in operating conditions, remember Rapier? I've seen Rapier units spin around in circles as a counfounded operator desperately tries to make the damn thing even switch to operating mode (eventually, as in the Falklands, they simply gave up), they're RUBBISH and always were, as it was, it didn't stop them being our primary surface to air missile system. Seawolf was better, again flawed (in the falklands) by lack of understanding of the operational limitations of the system, interference, occlusion, etc etc.

 

Do I believe that Brahmos/Sunburn missiles operated by second rate powers such as Iran are incapable of sinking a type-45/Carrier/anything else, NO, firstly, and most obviously because it's never been tested against anything even vaguely indicative of such a threat, because there is a rather suspicious eagerness to avoid ever testing doing so, and because it failed against two targets simaltaneously, that should give you an indication that it may only have to be a slow moving French target drone to sink our ships.

 

And I'd argue, frankly, if we intend to have a navy that is never intended to be used in any situation against a power of any significance or even a power of minor significance who realises what great value for money ASHM's are, I'd argue we should become a coastal/littoral fleet, forget the carriers, forget F35, becuase if you put those enormously important assets and lives in jeapordy through the onerous notion of avoiding humiliating the French then we should simply avoid having a navy in the first place and put all of the nation's defense deterent in the hands of our partially operational SSBN's..

I think you have to remember that for a ship/fleet to survive, the anti missile systems have to be impeccable, virtually flawless, a 50% failure rate against slow-moving targets launched in a maximum salvo of... 2... sooner or later the RN will insist on testing against representative threats, I hope to hell do it sooner rather than later so that something can be salvaged of the Type 45 programme, which currently has about the same firepower as a 100 tonne martitime patrol vessel...

 

Pathetic

Those were Italian made drones. The drones worked just fine. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmilep.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />

 

H.

I think all he was saying was that the drones are slow.

It will be very interesting to see how the next (final?) Longbow test of Aster 30/ Sea Viper goes.

Due in the next few weeks.

If this "fails" I expect the s to hit the f.

Golden opportunity for a new government to roast and old government.

 

My guess is that there are some very nervous procurement officers in Abey Wood right now.

Yes lets hope so, only worry being I fear the defense review is going to be scrapping the idea of the RN being a blue water navy in the true sense of the word.. I fear the MOD is facing enormous procurement cuts..

Yes, and the oversized MOD bureaucracy to boot.

Apparently the F-18 made second place after the Gripen in the Brazilian Air Force report. Anyho, the UAE deal is pretty much dead as everyone here knows. Good luck to France changing out every piece of its aircraft (well... just engines, weapons and radar and some lesser concerns).

 

Hmmm lookits a lot of Brazilians were worried at the time how they were getting chummy with Ahmedinejad.

 

*signs out

It's probably better that Brazil does go for the obsolete A2A article in my opinion, given their new political orientation.. 

 

That anyone would trust their national security to the MICA missile is beyond me, with the Type-45's we've signed up to purchase a bunch of useless and overpriced french VLS systems with almost zero compatability with any of the other munitions we'd want to use (The LM/BAE Mk.41 would have added inherent Antiship/sub/land attack capability in one package), based on a missile system (MICA derivative; ASTER) that has been tested only in the most favourable terms, that has failed to make use of one of the best Maritime Radars (SAMSON) in service. It's widely known that the RN never favoured Aster, and it seems that in general, we have once again massaged the French ego whilst failing to deliver for our servicemen : (

 

And given we seem to have not learned any lessons from the AMM failures in the Falklands, the French-built carriers will be protected by French built missiles reliant on French assurances as to effectiveness...

 

 

Well I think there's some kind of ancestral karma mojo at work here. French missiles don't work to protect the Brits (Aster), but they work to harm them (Exocet) :-D

I couldn't resist, sorry. 

Seriousness again : if Brazil buys Rafale they'll have all the necessary codes to integrate new weapons if they wish, such as the South-African AAMs they're currently operating. That's supposing MICA-IR doesn't work, and I wouldn't bet on that. On the radar side, well there's Meteor anyway...

It's probably better that Brazil does go for the obsolete A2A article in my opinion, given their new political orientation.. 

 

That anyone would trust their national security to the MICA missile is beyond me, with the Type-45's we've signed up to purchase a bunch of useless and overpriced french VLS systems with almost zero compatability with any of the other munitions we'd want to use (The LM/BAE Mk.41 would have added inherent Antiship/sub/land attack capability in one package), based on a missile system (MICA derivative; ASTER) that has been tested only in the most favourable terms, that has failed to make use of one of the best Maritime Radars (SAMSON) in service. It's widely known that the RN never favoured Aster, and it seems that in general, we have once again massaged the French ego whilst failing to deliver for our servicemen : (

 

And given we seem to have not learned any lessons from the AMM failures in the Falklands, the French-built carriers will be protected by French built missiles reliant on French assurances as to effectiveness...

 

This isn't fully on track but some people like to say that Brazil is 'always the country of the future'. Lately I've seen some signs to confirm it, but it may be they are just taking their sweet time growing up to be a mighty and/or responsible nation... there are certainly are numerous other examples.

The somewhat off-kilter point I'm getting to here is that I don't know about planes but I agree with you the Rafale's systems (weapons and otherwise) will accomplish what you expect of them. The problem to a Brazilian patriot would be that it does not help angle their hard power for future regional influence and power projection against anything but failed states and near failed states. 

 

If Brazil hamstrings itself with the Rafale to some degree it will have immediate, lasting and possibly compounded impacts on their development of fighter planes and doctrines. I can understand Brazil's desire for an ally, however I think they have enough money not to stoop to such methods of procuring nuclear and naval technolgy.

... note my definition of near-failed states in this case is any nation that can't afford (not won't buy) Anglo-Saxon arms...