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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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Hamilcar       2/7/2010 5:14:12 AM



http://www.calf.cn/attachments/day_100205/20100205_71d5258aaebc5b546d04QBlTXwPFxFz4.jpg" alt="" width="1186" height="614" />



Well now! In print at last!

 

 

From that article.


[translated more or less]


 

F-22 encounters RAFALE



          From the same French aviators, who were largely loose lipped on the "tales" concerning the Rafale versus the Typhoon at the last ATLC ecercise held by  the UAE, they now said a few things about the confrontation between the Dassault delta winged fighter and the American F-22 present there. During BVR engagement (out of visual range) the American Raptor  did not fear to light their radars, remaining invisible to the RBE2, and Spectra of the Squalls, while locating with electromagnetic precision the absolute vectors of the French fighter, thus making certain that every AMRAAM shot setup they (F-22s) took went unanswered. Twice, more or less, the F-22 are also " furballed" with the Squalls in WVR combat range, ensuring  each time a " gun kill" without much difficulty at all.




What can I say? Vindication is a wonderful thing. The RBE2 and Spectra both failed disastrously in the manner so long predicted about them against the US countermeasures, exactly as many of us here predicted and described they would.

 

And what makes it worse for the fanboys , is that it is the French pilots, themselves, who are the best trained and most dedicated of professionals, admit it.

 

My comments here are purely restricted to the admitted electronic warfare failures shown in this report.  

 

 

 


   


   


 

 
From Das Kardinal.
 
F22 vs Rafale
Untouchable Raptor
While french aviators widely communicated about the "spanking" their Rafales gave the British Typhoons during the latest ATLC exercise in the UAE, few things were said about the confrontation between the Dassault delta and the American F22As present. During BVR engagements the American Raptors didn't even bother to turn on their radars, thus staying invisible to the RBE2 and Spectra while still precisely locating the French fighter's electromagnetic emissions, therefore managing to fire Amraams from stand-off distance. At least twice the F22As also came into close-range fight and every time ensured a "gun kill" without much difficulty.
 
I just compared the two translations to each other. Funny how the transliteration "feel" yielded different interpretations!  
 
Shrug. I think DK's was closer to literal and better overall as a pure translation, while mine was more or less "technical descriptive" as to the "feel" of the comment. I mistranslated the sentence about the no use of radars (missed that negative). Sorry about that.
 
H. 
 
 
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french stratege       2/7/2010 10:38:06 AM
France knows well the AN/APG-79  since Rafale has trained with F18E, and AN/APG-79 is the same generation than F22 AN/APG-77
We can assume that scenario of engagement between F22 and Rafale was scripted.
USA did not want to use their radar in front of Rafale, and France did not want to reveal capabilities of Spectra.
 
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earlm    Question   2/7/2010 11:51:09 AM
Did the F-22's have external tanks on during the exercise?  Normally they do when exercising with foreigners.  If so, I am going to die laughing about RBE2's incompetence.
 
Face it French Fanboys, your plane is a generation behind.
 
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Rufus       2/7/2010 11:53:45 AM
"France knows well the AN/APG-79  since Rafale has trained with F18E, and AN/APG-79 is the same generation than F22 AN/APG-77"

The US knows the Rafale well since it has trained with the Eurofighter and the Rafale is the same generation as the Eurofighter.
 
Happy?
 
Those are two completely different radars from two completely different manufacturers kid.  They are both AESA's, that is about the only similarity. 
 
Are you starting to understand why you are such a joke around here?
 
"We can assume that scenario of engagement between F22 and Rafale was scripted."
 
Of course, they always are to one extent or another.  This is something I have been explaining to you forever at this point. 
 
Funny how you LOVE to cite DACT "results" as proof of something when it suits you but when you don't like the results suddenly you are struggling to cook up excuses. 
 
"USA did not want to use their radar in front of Rafale, and France did not want to reveal capabilities of Spectra."
 
It is quite possible the F-22 was using its radar the whole time but the Rafale pilot interviewed for that story had no idea, as was already explained.
 
Spectra wasn't designed to cope with the types of LPI signals AESAs are capable of generating for the simple reason that France is not concerned about fighting anyone equipped with such radars. Unlike you, the real professionals in the French military prioritize working on projects that actually might be useful in combat against a likely foe rather than projects that would help idiot fanboys brag on the internet.
 
 
All this exercise shows is that all your idiotic fanboy science fiction writing about trying to fight F-22's passively was completely groundless. 
 
The Rafale's were flying just like all other 4th generation fighters against the F-22, with the same results.   Their radar was useless and they were dead long before they were able to use any kind of passive targeting to find an F-22.  
 


 
 
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Hamilcar       2/7/2010 12:42:04 PM

France knows well the AN/APG-79  since Rafale has trained with F18E, and AN/APG-79 is the same generation than F22 AN/APG-77

We can assume that scenario of engagement between F22 and Rafale was scripted.

USA did not want to use their radar in front of Rafale, and France did not want to reveal capabilities of Spectra.

Its a generation LATER (Raytheon 2005) actually-than the AN/APG-77 (Northrop Grumman 1998). And you know nothing about the true capabilities of either, FS.
 
You are finally beaten, FS. No more pretense and no more excuses from you. Have the good grace to accept the truth at last.
 
Your pilots said Spectra failed against the Raptors as they said it failed against the Super Hornets in the 2008 exercises.  
 
Upon further reflection that translated extract can be read in the French either one of two ways. It is a rather clumsy way to say that the radar either was not used or that they think the  Americans simply deigned not to use it. It indicates to me that the French pilots DON'T KNOW if the radar was used. That speaks volumes about the Squall's total EW systems failure.
 
 
 
   
 
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Apokalypse       2/7/2010 1:30:23 PM
so the F-18's and the Rafale been at it again?? What kind of exercise??
 
to be honest your all fanboys everyone of you...strategypage is like the fanboy site....lol
 
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Rufus       2/7/2010 1:52:45 PM
"Its a generation LATER (Raytheon 2005) actually-than the AN/APG-77 (Northrop Grumman 1998). And you know nothing about the true capabilities of either, FS.
 
You are finally beaten, FS. No more pretense and no more excuses from you. Have the good grace to accept the truth at last."
 
 
What is amusing is that he is always claiming to be an expert defense consultant with multiple Phds who charges 3500 euros a day for his time... and he throws out utterly simplistic BS like claiming that the APG-77 and APG-79 are effectively the same radar because they are both AESAs.
 
I mean HONESTLY...  what kind of a professional would claim that two completely different radars from two completely different manufacturers are effectively the same because they are both AESAs?

 
Is this what is clients get for 3500 euros a day?  "All AESA radars have the same capabilities..."
 
That is something a fanboy would say, because that is what he is. 
 
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Hamilcar    Read the news and use that mind you have.    2/7/2010 1:54:43 PM

so the F-18's and the Rafale been at it again?? What kind of exercise??

 

to be honest your all fanboys everyone of you...strategypage is like the fanboy site....lol



Without proper training facilities of their own; where do you think French naval aviators TRAIN when the Charles de Gaulle breaks down and they have no carrier on which to practice at sea?
 
The running joke is that the Squall operates from US carriers more often than it does from that French harbor queen.
 
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earlm       2/7/2010 2:44:33 PM

so the F-18's and the Rafale been at it again?? What kind of exercise??

 

to be honest your all fanboys everyone of you...strategypage is like the fanboy site....lol




Why is it that a purposefully misspelled handle, most commonly with k in place of c or z in place of s always means a moron with nothing to contribute?  Maybe it's because that's the way teenagers spell to make themselves look cool.  Why don't you post the meat of your CV?  I'd be fascinated to see where you got your PhD in aerospace engineering and how you're applying it.  You do know that there are real people from the industry on the site and that they regularly contribute great material?
 
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Apokalypse       2/7/2010 3:45:08 PM




so the F-18's and the Rafale been at it again?? What kind of exercise??



 



to be honest your all fanboys everyone of you...strategypage is like the fanboy site....lol









Without proper training facilities of their own; where do you think French naval aviators TRAIN when the Charles de Gaulle breaks down and they have no carrier on which to practice at sea?

 

The running joke is that the Squall operates from US carriers more often than it does from that French harbor queen.












true....probably not...thats not really the question I asked...?
 
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