Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
gf0012-aust       12/16/2009 4:19:14 AM
btw, that magic production run number is why dassault is desperate to get both India and Brasil.  IMO a sale to Switzerland won't address the problem without the other 2 being won as the Swiss potential sale is too small.
 
Dassault, like GIAT is running at cost negative on their capital product.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    YF-23   12/16/2009 5:50:50 AM
1. Those could have been re-harnessed and a new computer OS installed after the software and avionocs design OOPSIE.
2. Those could have dropped bombs and A2G like the F-117, as well as air-dominated.
3. They had longer range.
4. They were evolvable into Aardvark type 8 hour bombers.
5. They were pretty.
 
Those would still be in production and we would argue over whether the Rolls Royce powered VTOL version was even practical or whether LockMart's JSF would eat into its production run. 

Instead we chose the Raptor.
 
Cest l'idiots. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emcrook.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
Quote    Reply

mabie       12/17/2009 5:34:04 AM
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar       12/17/2009 5:40:55 AM
 
Excellent link, Mabie.
 
Thank you.
 
H.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       12/17/2009 6:34:03 AM
According to french ministry of defense cited by a well informed french journalist, French Rafale won all victories against Typhoon at first confrontation in UAE with a 4 to 0 win  for Rafale (4 Rafale vs 4 Typhoon).At second confrontation with Rafale weapons given a lower fictionous performance, Rafale still won by 3 to 1 against Typhoon.
They said that Rafale fought F22 but only in gun simulated combat and F22 recorded only a single victory (byt they do not says if Rafale won one).
They also said that Rafale shoot six AASM against 6 different objectives at dozens of km while firing 3 mica in less than a minute.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Translation.   12/17/2009 7:04:12 AM

Thursday December 17, 2009 The RAF is more out og jpint than it normally is.

 

 The first account-returned carried out this morning by a pilot of French Rafale proves the superiority of the French fighter over the RAF Typhoons, during exercises carried out these last weeks, with WATER. The first action had four Rafales against four Typhoons' that ended 4-0 in favor of the French. This is spite of degraded air-to-air armament, explains an unnamed source. After the next handicap still degraded the armament further the Rafale still won, 3-1. The Rafale exercised on several occasions with F22, but within a framework limited to the air-to-air WVR. It was in the GUNSIGHT of the American fighter on only one occasion, the nameless one explains. The Rafale, the unnamed source   added, thus largely improved its reputation, in particular in foreign pilots' opinions. It thus again showed its superiority in all the elint missions, by detecting ground-to-air missiles sites which had not been updated by American F-16CJ. In addition, l' optronic frontal sector (OSF) also allowed visual ID detections and identifications with 40 kilometers, an asset which avoids the need of the [lane to close to expose itselof for visual identification, to 3-4 kilometers, which is necessary for the majority of the other types of  planes. In the same way, in the space of one minute, a Rafale fired six AASM?s at  as many objectives, with ranges of several tens of kilometers, while also firing three air-to-air missiles Micas. In place posted, this day, a pilot enthuses? Published by mammoth leader with l' addresses 12/17/2009 11:49: 00 AM The wording: army of l' Air, Rafale
According to french ministry of defense cited by a well informed french journalist, French Rafale won all victories against Typhoon at first confrontation in UAE with a 4 to 0 win  for Rafale (4 Rafale vs 4 Typhoon).At second confrontation with Rafale weapons given a lower fictionous performance, Rafale still won by 3 to 1 against Typhoon.

They said that Rafale fought F22 but only in gun simulated combat and F22 recorded only a single victory (byt they do not says if Rafale won one).


They also said that Rafale shoot six AASM against 6 different objectives at dozens of km while firing 3 mica in less than a minute.

 

BULLSHIT.
 
Note the underlined.
 
H.
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/17/2009 8:02:09 AM
Good finds Gentlemen .
 
So , the F-22 is still undefeated , F-16blk60s and M2000-5Fs-M2000-9s were "no competition" . Since we know that the Raptors flew on the Blue side alongside Rafales and Typhoons , they probably did the air cover (escort , support and CAPs) . It seems that they did an outstanding job , even better than expected , with pilots who flew only one hundred hours on the jet . It proves one more time the excellent design of the fighter and its systems .
I would like to know a bit more about how the BVR combats were conducted , it would help us to draw a clearer picture .Has it been seen on radar ? Has it been using some electronic counter mesures ? What kind of tactics the F-22s were using (Leader-Wingmen) ? Altitude , speed (supercruise) , aspect , etc ?
I would give happily one day wedge just to read a full report :-)
Sure , this plane rocks .
 
So , the Rafale scored 4-0 against the Typhoon , well this is rather impressive for a fighter often and wrongly seen as a bomb truck . It proves that the Rafale is a better AtoA platform than the Typhoon ~as many always said .
(Mister J. Lake must be pale as a white horse)
 
Here too , I 'd like to read a full report . From where I stand , it has to be the result and the addition of multiple details who shows the better performance of the Rafale 's systems . The article also makes a reference to the fact that the Rafales detected many SAM sites unseen by the US F-16CJs (thanks Spectra) and visual identification at 40km (BVR) with the OSF . Also , firing 9 weapons at 9 different targets (air and ground) in less than a minute demonstrate the excellence of Spectra and RBE2 working together (fusion) as well as the FCS and weapons employed (AASM and Mica) .
It is a performance very hard to beat in "multi-role" .
 
I am a bit "dubitatif" regarding the gun only combat against the F-22s ... The article says that the 2 fighters were confronted few times (à plusieurs reprises) and that the F-22 scored once . What about the other times ? Was it multiple draws ? I wander ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    It was off the record talk with no official verification.    12/17/2009 8:17:12 AM

Good finds Gentlemen .

 

So , the F-22 is still undefeated , F-16blk60s and M2000-5Fs-M2000-9s were "no competition" . Since we know that the Raptors flew on the Blue side alongside Rafales and Typhoons , they probably did the air cover (escort , support and CAPs) . It seems that they did an outstanding job , even better than expected , with pilots who flew only one hundred hours on the jet . It proves one more time the excellent design of the fighter and its systems .


I would like to know a bit more about how the BVR combats were conducted , it would help us to draw a clearer picture .Has it been seen on radar ? Has it been using some electronic counter mesures ? What kind of tactics the F-22s were using (Leader-Wingmen) ? Altitude , speed (supercruise) , aspect , etc ?

I would give happily one day wedge just to read a full report :-)


Sure , this plane rocks .

 

So , the Rafale scored 4-0 against the Typhoon , well this is rather impressive for a fighter often and wrongly seen as a bomb truck . It proves that the Rafale is a better AtoA platform than the Typhoon ~as many always said .


(Mister J. Lake must be pale as a white horse)

 

Here too , I 'd like to read a full report . From where I stand , it has to be the result and the addition of multiple details who shows the better performance of the Rafale 's systems . The article also makes a reference to the fact that the Rafales detected many SAM sites unseen by the US F-16CJs (thanks Spectra) and visual identification at 40km (BVR) with the OSF . Also , firing 9 weapons at 9 different targets (air and ground) in less than a minute demonstrate the excellence of Spectra and RBE2 working together (fusion) as well as the FCS and weapons employed (AASM and Mica) .


It is a performance very hard to beat in "multi-role" .


 

I am a bit "dubitatif" regarding the gun only combat against the F-22s ... The article says that the 2 fighters were confronted few times (à plusieurs reprises) and that the F-22 scored once . What about the other times ? Was it multiple draws ? I wander ...

 

Cheers .


 


It was non-factual as in exaggeration and in some cases outright lies. (underlined warning markers) You cannot take that crap seriously.  That and the claim that this was an official French War Ministry pronouncement when it was nothing of the kind just shows how desperate the propagandists here  are. I did note that for all the claims of weapon release, not one exercise hit was claimed.  In the famous Phoenix six shooter exercise that Congress demanded of the F-14 Tomcat to verify claims, four of six exercise targets were actually killed.  Here even the simulated munitions were not verified?  
 
Note the word simulated.
 
Nothing has changed.  
 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/17/2009 8:23:11 AM


Note the word simulated.


forget about it, there is a continuing spectacular failure to understand DACT. you are beating your head against  a brick wall as the commentary again shows that the "blogger" is obviously telling fibs. 
 
eg how many times do we have to lazarus the issue of simmed weapons releases?
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       12/17/2009 8:57:09 AM
Of course it is DACT.
And you can be sure that Rafale (not to mention F22) has not shown all its capabilities especially on ECM or ECCM or RCS.
But if you don't win in DACT, it is more difficult to think you would win in real combat situation.
What we can be sure, is that on paper Rafale F3 win over Typhoon (like in all open competitions) and won in DACT.
Now it is assessment versus F22 that would be the key thing to learn for us.
 
Whatever France will continue to improve and support Rafale because it is one of the key item for its independance and political autonomy with SSBN/SSN or reco satellites.
And I'm quite sure that our military planning will not let our pilots to fight in an inferior plane and inferiors means against a nation equiped with the best russian or chinese items.
Today or tomorrow.
It has never happened and will not happen.
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics