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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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french stratege       11/17/2009 5:51:04 PM
Beazz
I know perfectly that a Rafale RBE2 is unable to detect a F22 outside the visual range (probably even an AESA RBE2 so it makes no difference).
Rafale would rely entirely on passive means and use its LO+Spectra ECM (plus eventually some low level tactics to benefit on ground clutter) to deny F22 radar detection at long range.
And Rafale would also rely on its magic silver bullet i.e the MICA IR BVR missile.
 
A Rafale success would be already 1 to 3 ratio against F22, I means 1 F22 shoot for 3 Rafale.
A 1 to 2 ratio would be a tremendous success and a 1 to 1,5 an humiliation for Raptor.
 
 
 
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french stratege       11/17/2009 6:00:12 PM
In a sense Rafale is exactly the opposite of US 5th generation fighter whom primary captor is active (long range radar), its primary BVR weapon is active (AMRAAM with active RF seeker) and protection is passive (stealth to avoid detection) since Rafale has a passive primary captor (Spectra), its primary BVR weapon is passive (Mica with passive dual band IR seeker) and protection is active (Spectra ECM+low observable to help).
Do you know that initially it was planned that Rafale would have no radar?
However it was discarded because too risky and radar bring benefits.
 
A F22 vs a Rafale would be a cracker to watch.
Exact opposite concept.And both are largely kept secret on capabilities.
 
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albywan       11/17/2009 6:00:49 PM
I guess we'll have to wait for a resurgent Germany to once again extend it's borders to the Atlantic and the Cheese Eaters capitualte once again... before we see a USAF F22 vs Vichy France's Rafale...
 
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MK       11/17/2009 9:03:29 PM

I know perfectly that a Rafale RBE2 is unable to detect a F22 outside the visual range (probably even an AESA RBE2 so it makes no difference).
Rafale would rely entirely on passive means and use its LO+Spectra ECM (plus eventually some low level tactics to benefit on ground clutter) to deny F22 radar detection at long range.

And Rafale would also rely on its magic silver bullet i.e the MICA IR BVR missile.

 

A Rafale success would be already 1 to 3 ratio against F22, I means 1 F22 shoot for 3 Rafale.

A 1 to 2 ratio would be a tremendous success and a 1 to 1,5 an humiliation for Raptor.

A low level approach is certainly one of the dumbest possible ideas if you are going to intercept someone else. As soon as you are detected and be it during the climb you are in a serverly disadvantaged position.
 
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sentinel28a       11/18/2009 12:07:02 AM
I'm half serious.If I where a pilot with a less than 10% possibility to be killed and earning few millions $(and a medal to add), I would take the risk and the challenge.
 
I know French pilots are crazy, but not suicidal.  Which is why I suggest you don't tell a fighter pilot this at your next airshow.  Your ego might not be able to take the laughing, and your teeth might not be able to take their fists.
 
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Das Kardinal       11/18/2009 4:01:38 AM

I guess we'll have to wait for a resurgent Germany to once again extend it's borders to the Atlantic and the Cheese Eaters capitualte once again... before we see a USAF F22 vs Vichy France's Rafale...


Or we could wait for World War III to be fought on America's soil, for a change, with American cities being destroyed and American civilians caught in the middle and millions of American soldiers salughtered, and then we'd see afterwards if some commentators would still be so quick to call others surrender monkeys.  http://www.strategypage.com/Images/emthdown.gif" alt="" />
 
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Beazz       11/18/2009 10:17:32 AM




I guess we'll have to wait for a resurgent Germany to once again extend it's borders to the Atlantic and the Cheese Eaters capitualte once again... before we see a USAF F22 vs Vichy France's Rafale...






Or we could wait for World War III to be fought on America's soil, for a change, with American cities being destroyed and American civilians caught in the middle and millions of American soldiers salughtered, and then we'd see afterwards if some commentators would still be so quick to call others surrender monkeys.  http://www.strategypage.com/Images/emthdown.gif" />

Did they, or did they not surrender? We had one of those wars btw. Sometime back around the ~1770s with a bunch of rag tag settlers fighting what was one of, if not the most powerful military in the world at the time. We didn't surrender and we kicked them all the way back to their side of the big pond.
 
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Beazz       11/18/2009 10:22:29 AM

Beazz

I know perfectly that a Rafale RBE2 is unable to detect a F22 outside the visual range (probably even an AESA RBE2 so it makes no difference).

Rafale would rely entirely on passive means and use its LO+Spectra ECM (plus eventually some low level tactics to benefit on ground clutter) to deny F22 radar detection at long range.

And Rafale would also rely on its magic silver bullet i.e the MICA IR BVR missile.

 

A Rafale success would be already 1 to 3 ratio against F22, I means 1 F22 shoot for 3 Rafale.

A 1 to 2 ratio would be a tremendous success and a 1 to 1,5 an humiliation for Raptor.

 

 


Cheese, wine and cigs my back side. You are not smoking anything but pure out shooting drugs straight into your veins if you think that POS Rafail is gonna waltz in and have a 1:3 ratio against the F22. Only way it would ever kill one is if the F22 pilot fell asleep while on auto pilot. Although I still say it would be silly to take the gloves off and use everything in it's inventory to wax every foreign jet at that little war game, it would almost be worth it to shut people like you up once and for all.  
 
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Das Kardinal       11/18/2009 10:42:55 AM

I guess we'll have to wait for a resurgent Germany to once again extend it's borders to the Atlantic and the Cheese Eaters capitualte once again... before we see a USAF F22 vs Vichy France's Rafale...




Or we could wait for World War III to be fought on America's soil, for a change, with American cities being destroyed and American civilians caught in the middle and millions of American soldiers salughtered, and then we'd see afterwards if some commentators would still be so quick to call others surrender monkeys.  http://www.strategypage.com/Images/emthdown.gif" />



Did they, or did they not surrender? We had one of those wars btw. Sometime back around the ~1770s with a bunch of rag tag settlers fighting what was one of, if not the most powerful military in the world at the time. We didn't surrender and we kicked them all the way back to their side of the big pond.


Oh yes, compare the american war of Independance with WW1 and WW2. Right. <rolleyes> 
Good thing back then said powerful military had to operate across an ocean, and funnily you forget to mention how this rag-tag bunch got help from the other powerful military of the time, eh ?
What I say is, America never experienced anything as traumatic and destructive as the two world wars fought on European soil. If I wanted to be rude I'd say that Pearl Harbour and 9/11 were small farts on the European scale of experienced war and destruction (which goes far beyond the world wars as well). 
Good for America, frankly. But please don't confuse historical and geographical luck with an innate right to disparage everyone else.


 Now on something else, BW's idea made m laugh in a "lol, wtf ?" way. Seriously... proposing to shoot for real, even with warheads removed ? Those are still missiles we're talking about, big metal spears that go very fast. Just imagine one of those hitting the cockpit... mashed pilot au menu !
 
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jackjack       11/18/2009 11:02:50 AM



Did they, or did they not surrender? We had one of those wars btw. Sometime back around the ~1770s with a bunch of rag tag settlers fighting what was one of, if not the most powerful military in the world at the time. We didn't surrender and we kicked them all the way back to their side of the big pond.

does usa surrendering at wake island and the philippines count, ? where Macarthur left his troops and ran away to australia

 
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