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Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
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markrigh    its a plot!   12/11/2009 2:11:31 PM
what would be strategypage without the likes od Herald, BW, FS, DasKardinal, ...
sometimes i think its all plan staged to get lots of replies from people.
this is plot! i knew it...
 
 
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gf0012-aust       12/11/2009 3:06:27 PM
150m open sights in most militaries I deal with would certainly not make you a sniper - and would barely qualify you as a marksman.
 
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Hamilcar       12/11/2009 3:29:54 PM

what would be strategypage without the likes od Herald, BW, FS, DasKardinal, ...

sometimes i think its all plan staged to get lots of replies from people.

this is plot! i knew it...


 

Please don't insult Das Kardinal! He shows sense!
 
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Bluewings12       12/11/2009 3:30:49 PM
Nichevo :
""Um, was any of that relevant?""
 
Yes , very much . I would enjoy a shooting session with you , we could compare our techniques and probably learn from each other , add a good laugh and a beer and we get a perfect day :-)
I like the .22LR too , I owned a Army Jaeger AP74 M16 and I had some fun with it . Very fragile rifle , capricious mecanism but very accurate up to 60m (cartridge .22 short) .
 
""And I do understand that 150m is not what you would call long range, even with a 5.56mm; not for a sniper.""
 
From a standing position , it is . If you kneel , it is not anymore and with your belly on the ground and the bipod , it is a very easy shot . Not all assault rifles are equals , the Famas really shines at close to medium range (0 to 150m) while the (example) M16 shines medium to long range (50 to 200m) . Shorter barrel and higher rate of fire for the Famas .
I said that I could put 3 rounds in someone 's chest with the Famas using the short burst setting at 150m , but I couldn 't with the M16A2 , do you know the reason why ?  ...
Because of the higher rate of fire and a lesser recoil . Whatever people say , the Famas has not been built to fire long range (over 250m) . Myself and at that distance , I use a rifle grenade from cover if I don 't have my FRF1 . 
 
I was thinking how many rounds I fired during my time in the Forces , I said 5000 like that , from the top of my head . In fact I don 't have a clue ... Maybe it is 3 times more , I really don 't know .
 
Anyway , from what you say , my guess is that you are and have been a sharp shooter for some time now .
While there is very little difference in diameter , the .22LR and the 5.56 can 't be compared , but any one who fired more than 4500 rounds with a rifle will be at ease very quickly with an assalt rifle . If the person is good , I give him/her 3 days to be up to speed and start hitting targets at 200m with ease and another 2 weeks to learn the strings behind the job .
It 's nice to talk with you about shooting Nichevo :-)
 
Cheers .
 
 

 
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Bluewings12       12/11/2009 4:30:31 PM
GoG , you 'll never stop to surprise me .
 
""In a hot war between two top-rank opponents, i think they might be quickly swapped for SAMS, air defences and, for offense, drones. Or saved for a special offensive to tip the scales in one theater. But as a warplane, let's face it, fighter planes have evolved themselves off the battlefield.""
 
That 's spot on . Everybody 's trying to fire for stand-off range as much as possible . BVR in AtoG and AtoA is the idea .
 
""PS
BW, i have been reading the Fighter board for some time and have to tip my hat to you. Your knowledge in this field is quite impressive for someone who comes from a different background... and in a foreign language. I think my French is pretty good.... but as i read your posts, i realize i could never say the same things in French. Many reading your posts take this for granted: i do not.""
 
Thank you .
 
""However, my advice to you........................The Socratic Method.... works every time.""
 
Ok , I am going to humbly try that .
 
""j'espere te lire sous peu et bien a vous chef!""
 
lol ! Juste une petite erreur : you use "te" and then "vous" , don 't mix the two :
j ' espère TE lire sous peu et bien à TOI chef (or : j ' espère VOUS lire sous peu et bien à VOUS chef)
;-)
***********************
155E :
""Fact is what they are good at is operating snug as a bug in US-sanitized and US-managed airspace (and taking up twice as much ramp space to do half the work).""
 
This is uncalled for . Of course French pilots like to fly in a US- managed airspace , who wouldn 't ? But that doesn 't mean that we couldn 't do it without , does it ?
 
""But get them out of our ATO cycle and their ground troops are on their own without air support.""
 
Sorry ? They are other support fighters from NATO ! What do you mean ? Is it ... bashing ?
If the US umbrella suddently disapear , one would see EU AWACs and Tankers on station . Where is the problem ?
I can already hear the question : "why don 't you do it and save the US tax payers ?
This is a very "hot" topic ...
I am walking on eggs here , it is StrategyPage .
I think that the USA like to take the lead for multiple reasons , like to show their strenght , having the last word , fighting for a cause . This is not new and most of the time , the USA had it right .
It shows will and money , the two things who run the World (with sex , lol) .
Europe is not really lacking in these regards , far from it in fact . It is a common mistake to think that because Europe is happy to see the USA taking the lead in many war ops for a mutual cause , that Europe couldn 't do it by Herself .
Europe ~as an entity~ is very strong .
 
""They are so non-self-sustaining it isn't even funny, they had to borrow RAF tanker assets just to fly to al Dhafra for the exercise this thread is about.""
 
No , we are not "non-self-sustaining" , where did you get this ? We asked one of our best ally for a favor like they do with us on other occasion . The UK don 't have Tankers on station over many parts of Africa (or elsewhere) like we have .
If push comes to shove over Europe or France , many Tankers will be back in no time .
 
Cheers .

 



 


 
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Hamilcar    No US.   12/11/2009 4:40:54 PM
No AWACS for France.
 
Our planes, our tech,  OUR PARTS.
 
This is what ignorance does. It does not take into account why things are. The French don't own that TECH BASE. 
 

 
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jackjack       12/11/2009 4:44:32 PM
bw, you are full of it, saturday afternoon shooters do comps 200m standing with iron sights
for a so called trained sniper, you dont seem to know much
 
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Bluewings12       12/11/2009 4:46:27 PM
Pfff ...
You are right Herald but you are useless ...
We sell stuff to you too , do you want to ask thousands of US marines to give us back our helmets ?
 
Cheers .
 
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gf0012-aust       12/11/2009 4:57:08 PM

saturday afternoon shooters do comps 200m standing with iron sights

I used to shoot rogue roos in the head at 200 yards with a .303. an SLR or even a Ruger 10/22.

I can tell you now, I'm no sniper by any stretch of the imagination.  I doubt I'd qualify as a marksman
on any given day, any one of our aboriginal stockmen could outshoot me, and probably still outshoot me even if they were plastered.

 
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Bluewings12       12/11/2009 5:13:07 PM
I was waiting for this one :
(JJ)
""bw, you are full of it, saturday afternoon shooters do comps 200m standing with iron sights
for a so called trained sniper, you dont seem to know much""
 
I was wandering when this BS would come in , it took some time I have to say .
It is where soldiers spot the "sunday afternoon shooters" .

JJ , if you read again what I responded to Nichevo with a different view , you WILL get what I was on .
I tell you ~if you don 't mind~ : take an good sunday afternoon shooter , give him an assault rifle with 5 clips , a 50 pounds rucksack , 4 grenades , a military suite , a knife , a kevlar jacket , an helmet , a water bottle and whatever he/her likes to take , makes him/her walk , run , walk and run for 20 miles in rough grounds . Then ~if he/her didn 't give up yet~ , put him/her in a middle of an ambush and let 's see what his/her shooting skills will be .
This is the daily life of the Commando , him/her being French , American , Japanese or (fill the dots) .
 
Add to this possible stress , defeaning sounds around , people going down and you get a better picture .
Now , aim and kill the mofo at 150m with a short burst shot or lay down with your FRF1 , aim , breath control and put a bullet in the head of the enemy radio-man half hidden behind a rock at 600m .
We 're not on the firing range JJ .
 
Cheers .

 
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