Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 6*F-22 vs 6*Typhoon vs 6*Rafale in the UAE?!
giblets    11/16/2009 4:48:58 AM
According to both Flight Global, and Defence News, other than attending the Dubai airshow, the USAF, RAF, and FAF each sent 6 of their finest fighter aircraft to the desert Kingdom to take part in multinational exercises. Other than adding much fuel to the fire for forum members here! It raises many questions (such as why the USAF was unable to send 1 F-22 to Paris, and can now send 6 to the UAE, despite no drop in operational tempo). And will the F22 and Typhoon not be in the air at the same time again?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
jackjack       12/6/2009 5:08:49 PM
thats true, but what you said is wrong, keep reading and you will work it out
 
Quote    Reply

warpig       12/6/2009 5:11:21 PM

No I am not wrong , I am right and you are wrong Warpig . 

Against long wavelength , stealthy shapes and RAM are useless , this is a Physic law .
 
 
OH MY GOD, you are a waste of time!!!
 
I refer back to the last two pages of posts.
 
What is the wavelength of dozens of radars used by the Iraqis?  By the Serbs?
 
Among other radars that operate at wavelengths longer than 0.5m, TALL KINGs and SPOON RESTs operate at 150 to 180MHz.  That's a wavelength of over 1.6m!!!
 
Mere wavelength of greater than 0.5m is not an all-sufficient and sole determining factor as to whether a radar can detect LO aircraft!!!
Discussing a Chinese air defense that includes the hypothetical capabilities you cite isn't worth the effort, since even if you agree with what I say, you will just repeat your mistakes the next day.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/6/2009 5:14:06 PM
While Oz has JORN , France has Nostradamus (nice name for an OtH radar , we can see what is going to happen in the near futur , lol) :
 
h*tp://www.onera.fr/images-science/installation-experience/nostradamus.php
 
Range is said to be 2000km , JORN can reach 3000km+ .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/6/2009 5:33:11 PM
yes, but the aussie one really does work
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       12/6/2009 5:38:43 PM
Warpig :
""Among other radars that operate at wavelengths longer than 0.5m, TALL KINGs and SPOON RESTs operate at 150 to 180MHz.  That's a wavelength of over 1.6m!!!
Mere wavelength of greater than 0.5m is not an all-sufficient and sole determining factor as to whether a radar can detect LO aircraft!!!""
 
I know that for God sake !!! You tell me how the Serbs used an "overclocked" Tamara system to shot the F-117 !
Don 't take me for an ignorant fool !
The problem is not hardware driven but software driven . You can have and use a long wave band based radar but if you don 't have the proper knowledge on how to write the proper software , you 're fu**ed .
Every low band radar can detect and track targets bigger than the wavelength , it only needs to be capable to filter everything but the target . 
In the case of the FM band , it is even harder . I can post some studies from Thalès and C&T about how the HA-100 passive radar can track a stealth target flying very low over a highway (!) to confuse the radars .
Everything is bound to the software used . The array in itself is nothing extraordinary , you 've seen the picture .
I repeat , if used intelligently every low band radar will track and detect a stealth target .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       12/6/2009 5:41:48 PM


If you want to know why the Israelis don't take chances on such things, try visiting Rivesaltes next time you're in that neck of the woods.  Or do they teach in French schools what happened there?


Rivesaltes?  Hell, they don't teach Vichy! 
 
Quote    Reply

jackjack       12/6/2009 5:47:48 PM


No I am not wrong , I am right and you are wrong Warpig . 

Against long wavelength , stealthy shapes and RAM are useless , this is a Physic law .

OH MY GOD, you are a waste of time!!!
I refer back to the last two pages of posts.

 

he is that indeed and i thought it was very well explained, but it just went over his head why he is wrong
but to confuse him even more. a 1/4 wave length at 30mhz is 2.5 metres long, nothing is going to be hiding from that, a f-22 will light up like a xmass tree 
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       12/6/2009 5:47:58 PM
BW:

Huh ??? To keep your own troops and ships safe , you go to War ??? 

No , you take your troops and ships and you send them away , then they will be safe .
LOL, no, that is what the FRENCH do.
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       12/7/2009 12:52:56 AM
Something that made me laugh considerably just now - the last post I made to Bluewings pleading for him to stop, (before I re-edited it for the sake of temporary politeness) contained a line that went something like;
 
"You often rely on anonymous "expert friends" as evidence because it's a well known tactic of providing bogus data to bolster arguments that aren't supported by any evidence"

 
 
I was talking with a friend of mine (MK2-5F pilot) not long ago about how the airbase here in Dijon could be defended in case of War .
The Dijon BA-102 airbase is where the -5Fs are based (they are the "flying Cops" in the French airspace) . Dijon is very far from any Sea and attack by cruise missiles (from Subs and Ships) are very unlikely to say the least . To be in range of the airbase , one would have to fly deep into French , Swiss , German , Italian or Belgium airspace .
First , my friend said to me that we had excellent close range protection around the base itself and that we could track anything flying within a 300km diameter circle . So , I talked about our over the horizon radar ~Nostradamus~ and other military systems , some of them (like the HA-100) using civilians means (bands and frequencies) and my friend smiled to me . If we set up 3 HA-100 radars at around 20km away from the airbase , these radars would use up to 14 FM relays around Dijon to get a picture of what is flying around the area (that is 14 targets to kill before the passive radars stop working) . Anything flying like a supersonic long range cruise missile would be detected , tracked and shot before reaching the airbase
 
Bluewings, your "friends" have always, in my view, been imaginary. You seem to have charming conversations with them, in which they smilingly inform us in almost every instance that you are absolutely correct. 
 
Sorry, Politeness out of the window for the moment, am I the only person who finds this funny?
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       12/7/2009 1:19:15 AM

JJ , keep in mind that I know JORN ;-)

and yet you uncritically post this:

""Group Captain Hockings says stealth aircraft are coated with special radar absorbing material to avoid detection by conventional microwave radar. But the Jindalee radar uses high frequency radio waves, which have a much longer frequency than microwave radar. "Unless designed to be stealthy to both microwave and HF radars, (stealth) aircraft would not evade detection by JORN," he said""

there are a few things incorrect in this statement that anyone with a scintilla of signals/emissions knowledge could point out readily - and yet you quote in sans absurdism as a factual.  In the first instance, a uniform is not going to make empirical statements on extant systems, in the second the quality of the response can be assessed against the target audience.  The content of that response should give off clues pretty quickly on the intended audience.

if you claim to be familiat with the concepts of signals management and LO sig management in general, then the last thing you'd be quoting is the above.  that response is geared to a specific audience - you seem to uncritically have fallen into that cohort.
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News 		  Most
 Read 		  Most
 Commented		  Hot
 Topics