your position so far seems to be

f1 has piss poor panel alignment because they are test beds

i put up air frame 17 which as gf has shown is f2 with the same piss poor alignment and you said f3 build are the current standard

i invite you to put up a Artefacts 27 or later, ground up F3 build aircraft that shows proper panel alignment, if you feel they have corrected the problem

GF you might want to take a look here:

 

Issue 9 covers Excocet trials using the M1 and issue 11 includes a picture for AASM/Damocles testing. The other Rafale's used by Dassault were also built as part of batch 1 (B301 & 302 & C101). These aircraft started life as F1 standard (except C101) and were later upgraded to F2/F3 standard. It was stated that F1 aircraft will be directly upgraded to F3 standard from 2010, but priority was given to the upgrade of F2 aircraft. It certainly requires more work to bring F1 aircraft to F3 standard, but it's not impossible. If the plans have changed (I don't exclude that possiblity) I would like to see a source stating that.

 

 

 

 

 

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You are a despicable human being BW.

As to the actual topic, it may happen but French aviation will survive on the government's teat through either mergers or cash infusions.

 

Read a cross-section of comments, nice posts everyone. FS skirts the borders of idiocy, but fortunately has a semblance of reality.

 

As usual I didn't understand most of the detailed comments except bits and pieces, but was able to follow the general arguments and strengths-weakness comparison.

He has a perception of reality actually, I looked at more of FSs posts and he seems to be improving a lot by sticking to facts rather than opinions. In his case I actually buy that he has a job related to aviation. Still think he's biased though, to different degrees at different times, and I don't like his opinions (and probably him since he probably hates me by now), but it's always nice to read something from an inside source even though it's available material.

Indeed, I agree completely. In such a difficult and comprehensive field of knowledge with warded off information one can do nothing but find a wide variety of insiders to rely on for the level of understanding one wants (I personally opt for a very light one, and that mixed with a temper and subsequent overstepping my understandings by a lot to trash those who are insane has earned me more than a little enmity here).

 

The key to objectivity is evolution rather than revolution, incremental suspicion in every direction and knowledge of one's base and drift from surrounding sources to only allow oneself drift when one is aware it must be correct beyond reasonable doubt.

 

Relying on any single person is usually a bad idea, though it is a great idea to some extent if they really know what they're talking about, like Herald and gf.

 

scientific centrism takes the day. Kudos to those here who do that, it's why I bother to read here sometimes. ... Got to admit I found the rubes funny at first though.... In the sense that I wanted to see them smacked around by you other people who knew what you were talking about. But they never agree.

 

I guess that's the problem with most open forums. I've seen problems ranging from this to the other end of the spectrum.

Agree with what is taught to them by a rightout smack to the head of course, though I once read an article that intelligence and knowledge are the very things one need to realize that one is wrong... so a fool remains a fool most often, awareness of one's idiocy is actually shown to make people smarter. There's a document on this somewhere, though I deleted it from my favorites link after reading and forwarding it.

 

(Not being introspective here which I've been a lot lately, on a different offensive note: I have a 135-145 IQ as well as Asbergers (good for opinions, not so good for social though I do very well socially actually, when I care to) and ADHD))

 

Funny thing is I've seen it the other way around. The majority disagreeing with vitriol when I said on an open rpg forum in the context of optional gender modifiers for rpgs that women have a 60% upper body strength. 

And as usual I disclaim my multipost by adhd and the lack of an edit button, I seriously do try not to multipost and it is not my fault, as well as the lack of focus (well I could try harder there).

 

@ Bluewings12



> Not at all . Dassault will still be Leader in Europe in 2025 and by miles.



Considering how Typhoon came out to be superior to Rafale, that would mean a disaster.

Good post and overall thread... I don't see why people attack you viciously in general, I mean sure you make some lurid posts but your fundamentals are solid.

 

But yeeeah, unless the French govt makes a massive cash transfusion and guts the whole Dassault leadership after the mergers they won't make it... might even not in that dream scenario as I'm not sure the French aviation industry has the integrity needed to make a proper plane anymore.

 

Where are the managers responsible for Mirage? I'm sure they're somewhere. Merge everything and put them in charge of the human resources.

One thing to remember too is that salt water/air can really make a plane look filthy.  I've seen F-14s towards the end of a deployment that look just terrible.  The aircraft itself is okay, but it looks like crap.  I'm sure the same problem occurs with F-18s and Rafales.

 

Maybe this is a cheap shot, and I apologize if it is--but did Air France ever start cleaning its planes?  Seems like every time I've seen an AF bird, it looks like someone drove it through a mud puddle and washed it off with crap.