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Subject: Dassault VP : Rafale's successor will join Eurofighter Consortium-like Euro Consortium.
SlowMan    10/19/2009 4:07:06 PM
New York Times article < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/business/global/20jets.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2 > "Dassault appears to be thinking along the same lines. Eric Trappier, executive vice president at Dassault Aviation, said that Rafale’s “successor will probably be designed through a European cooperation, from 2025.” " So this is the end of all-French fighter aircraft.
 
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MK       10/28/2009 7:38:51 PM
I make no such claims. The effective search cone of an RBE2 against a Rafale fighter sized object is roughly matched out air to air about 60-100 km based  on Thales' own data. That is nowhere near an AN/APG 63 in ANY iteration as USAF admitted.

Tracking range is ~100 km against a 3 m² target and detection range ~140 km according your link and that matches the data I have gathered before. I honestly doubt that the APG-63 pre V2 version will double that number against a similar target.

Some of your numbers are Dassault provided.: specficaly fuel fractions and thrust performance.

 What is wrong about that?

The reason is called telemetry mismatch. You would have to build a "translator" node for the bit streams. 

Yes. There is also a time clock mismatch between bit rates. The new NATO standard is much faster and compressed.
 
I was actually of the impression that the Rafales F2 during Red Flag "talked" to the USAF E-3 with MIDS and as they are partner within the consortium for MIDS I find it hard to believe that it should be incopatible, makes no sense at all to me. Except they good something wrong on that on their own. If there actually is such an issue I would expect it to be fixed or have been fixed.
  
If the Su-35 was offered, then the Rafale really had no chance.  But I think the baseline THREAT comparison was the Su-30.

It was actually the OLD Su-35, not the new one which was recently ordered by the RuAF. That aircraft also usually acted as threat reference, though it makes sense to use the Su-30MK as reference now as it is operated by a couple of customers in 2 main versions based on the indian Su-30MKI and the less capable chinese Su-30MKK.
 
BTW where does the article you linked to state that the MICA failed? It says the MICA test had to be canceled as the intended target drone was errornously shot down by an improper functioning SAM.
 
 
 









 


 
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Hamilcar    Dassault lies.    10/28/2009 7:45:20 PM
And that was a 10 meter square target not 3 meter square at 60 nautical miles.
 
 
 
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Hamilcar    Dassault lies.    10/28/2009 7:48:00 PM
The MICA was the drone. Read it again.
 
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MK       10/28/2009 7:48:58 PM
Sqm and sqft are actually different from m and ft ;). You have to divide the sq ft figure by ~10 not 3.
 
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MK       10/28/2009 7:56:23 PM

The MICA was the drone. Read it again.

Sorry but you must be confused on that!
 
"The ministry will also investigate why a Standard SM-I air-defense missile fired from a Chengkung-class frigate missed its target and mistakenly shot down a drone intended as a target for a Mica air-to-air missile to be launched from a Mirage 2000-5 fighter. The military had to cancel the launch of the Mica."
 
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french stratege       10/28/2009 11:15:58 PM
Rafale PESA RBE2 is given for 100 km for a 1m² target or 110 km for a 1,5 m² target, which is similar to RDY first iteration, end of story.
 
 
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jackjack       10/29/2009 1:07:12 AM
is that a fanboy number or do you want to be taken seriously ?
you are going to have to put up a better link than this one that said 110k is 10 sqm or 30 sqft
 
The present radar air-to-air modes include long-range search; multi target track and engagement; air combat modes; Non-Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR); and look down/shoot down functions. In air-to-air mode, the RBE2 gives a tracking range beyond 60 nautical miles against a 30-square-foot target, with detection ranges up to 75 nautical miles. The radar can track and prioritize up to 40 targets simultaneously and engage up to eight with Mica, and soon Meteor, air-to-air missiles.
 
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jackjack       10/29/2009 2:38:39 AM
Russia's " independent " assessment puts it between and early f-15 and an early fa-18c
 

FH detection range: in free space (ACC-3), km

Early f15 100k

Rafale 93k

Early fa-18c 75k
 

range of detection against
earth background (ACC-3), km

early f15 70k
 
rafale 55k

early fa-18c 50k
 
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Beryoza    jackjack   10/29/2009 3:19:44 AM
Not meaning to take a "pro-Rafale" stance but I hope you're not presenting that link as authoritative. Even by Russian standards, it's shocking!
 
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MK    @Jackjack & FS   10/29/2009 3:31:59 AM
@Jackjack,
get your calculations right 30 sqm is ~ 3sqm not 10! Here is a converter.

@Frenchstratege,
The detection/tracking range figures of the RBE2 were all given against a 3 sqm target for years. Unless you can't come up with anything substantial proving the  1 sqm claim leave it. And I bet you'll have a hard time. These lower figures are fanboyish wishthinking spreaded by anonymous fanboys via internet fora.
 
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