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Subject: Best All-Around Fighter of World War II
sentinel28a    10/13/2009 3:38:03 PM
Let's try a non-controversial topic, shall we? (Heh heh.) I'll submit the P-51 for consideration. BW and FS, if you come on here and say that the Rafale was the best fighter of WWII, I am going to fly over to France and personally beat you senseless with Obama's ego. (However, feel free to talk about the D.520.)
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45-Shooter    I like that this report is fair!   4/15/2013 9:39:11 PM

Clean at best air breathing ALTITUDE, with the correct supercharger setting, and with half fuel.

Do not quote wikio and expect those of us who know better than you to blindly accept you citation.

6 March 1943


This is the first type actually intended for combat! See the book; "The fork tailed Devil"

                 a.    For a general combination of climb, range, endurance, speed, altitude and fire power, the P-38F is the best production line fighter tested to date at this station.  Types tested include the P-47, P-51, P-40F and P-39D-1.

                 b.    The allowable maximum diving speed is not as great as desired for combat operations.

                 c.    At speeds above allowable diving speeds especially over twenty-thousand (20,000) feet, violent vibrations from tail buffeting are experienced.

                 d.    The maintenance difficulties experienced were greater than with any other standard type of American fighter.

                 e.    The subject aircraft is easy to fly.  However, a longer period of time will be required for a pilot to become familiar with the operations and maximum performances of the aircraft than is required for a normal single engine fighter.

                 f.    The cockpit installations are crowded and not arranged in a specific orderly fashion.

                 g.    While the rate of climb is superior to all other types tested to date, this is not as great as required, especially below twenty-thousand (20,000) feet, and all excess weight in the structure and installations not vital to combat operations should be reduced or eliminated whenever possible.

                 h.    Cooling capacity of the intercooler is not sufficient to allow maximum horsepower to be extracted from the engine at altitude.

                 i.    The guns will not feed properly during maneuvers which create a pull of greater than 3-1/2 G’s.

For more of this report see HERE
a.    All conclusions and recommendations applying to the P-38F, apply to the P-38G.

                 b.    Inasmuch as the general maneuverability of this aircraft is probably the lowest of any type of current fighter aircraft, and in view of the competition facing the P-38G in the European Theatre, all possible effort should be made to improve its rate of climb and high speed.

                 c.    The P-38G turns much better than the P-38F (will close 180° in 360° circle) due to maneuver flaps.

                 d.    Buffeting was noticeable but at higher speeds and accelerations than in the P-38F.

                 e.    The P-38G will out zoom the P-38F.

                 f.    The P-38G will hold its altitude in turns at thirty-five-thousand (35,000) feet, whereas the P-38F loses altitude.

                 g.    The P-38G holds its advantages over the P-38F at all altitudes.

                 h.    The lack of sufficient intercooling holds down the performance of the P-38G as well as the P-38F.

Just be sure to look at all of the reports and note that these are for specific planes, times, dates and weights! It is easily possible for two otherwise identical planes, the aerodynamic performance could be off by more than 10%! 10%!!!!

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Maratabc       4/16/2013 1:16:32 AM
Incredible! The report's conclusions about climb, dive, roll and turn rates of the plane calls the man an utter complete liar about what he says the plane can do, and he tries to say that he likes it? What joke is this? 
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45-Shooter       4/16/2013 9:18:32 PM

Then you read the report and failed to understand it, or just did not have a clue what the various numbers mean or how they relate to what we discuss!


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Maratabc       4/16/2013 10:18:42 PM
Says the man who does not even know how airlerons work! 
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45-Shooter       4/17/2013 5:42:04 PM

Says the man who does not even know how airlerons work! 

  Not worth a reply!



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Maratabc       4/17/2013 7:03:24 PM
Because the man known as Shooter knows I speak the truth of the matter, so he cannot reply.

Says the man who does not even know how airlerons work! 

  Not worth a reply!



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45-Shooter       4/18/2013 1:41:07 PM

Because the man known as Shooter knows I speak the truth of the matter, so he cannot reply.

Says the man who does not even know how airlerons work! 

  Not worth a reply!



Still not worth a reply! Pity that you think you have to get the last word in?

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Maratabc       4/18/2013 1:55:13 PM
Is there something false in anything I've said about aircraft to this point? No.
Is there something false in anything you've said about aircraft to this point? Yes, almost a thousand posts.
Do I get the last word?
Marat speaks:
Not likely to happen, because a false man must defend his lies and thus in desperation must have the last word.
But in truth, I do laugh at you when you try to pretend, one called Shooter.
You still have not proved that the Flying Fortress can carry more than four tonnes of bombs a useful distance for example.
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45-Shooter       4/18/2013 10:26:11 PM

Then let us argue about the best way to judge the worth of a fighter plane?
I have just started re-reading "The Fork Tailed Devil, story of the P-38". It is a very well written and researched book with many first person quotes, including many from those who did not like it. So it is at least a fair book, telling both sides of the story with much data. After the first 100 pages or so, all I can say is that it makes the best case I've ever seen that any one plane is the best fighter plane of WW-II. Points made include the handling, rate of roll, best guns installation of all fighters and finally, my all time favorite the pointability endowed by the CR Props!
That brings me to which was the second best fighter plane of WW-II? The only two I seriously consider are the last few Spits with CR Props and the Ta-152C/H? The spit was more pointable and they finally fixed the snaky behavior and it was almost as fast as the TA-152, but it was still ham-strung by the wing mounted guns. On the other hand, the Ta had superior aerodynamic performance in all regimes and a great guns installation, plus a pressurised cockpit!
How do you choose between them?

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Jabberwocky       4/19/2013 1:24:49 AM
I find it very hard to take the P-38 seriously as the best fighter of WW2, when neither it users or its opponents though very highly of it.
In the ETO, captured Luftwaffe pilots rated it as the Allied fighter they would most prefer to enter combat against, while the Spitfire was the fighter they least wanted to encounter.
At the Pauxtent River Joint Fighter Conference, where they tested the FM-2, F6F-5, F7F-1, XF8F-1, F4U-1C, XF4U-4, FG-1, P-38L, P-47D, P-47M, P-51D, YP-59A, P-61, P-63, Firefly, Seafire, Mosquito and Zeke 52 side by side, it was generally considered the worst or second worst fighter in most categories.
The P-38 recieved no votes as the best fighter below 25,000 ft (best was F8F with 30% of the vote, just ahead of the P-51D). It recieve 1% of the vote as best fighter above 25,000 ft (best was P-47D with 45% of the vote). The low-altitude rated Seafire Mk III recieved more votes as the best fighter above 25,000 ft
Just 5% of pilots thought it was the best fighter bomber (F4U the best, with 32% of the vote)
Just 3% of pilots thought it was the best strafer (P-47 the best, with 41% of the vote)
Of the 28 pilots who commented on it, only three rated its combat qualities as "good"
55% of pilots voted that it had the worst cockpit (next was the Mosquito with 11% of the vote)
It was rated equal worst with the F2G for arrangment of engine controls
It was rated worst for both flaps/gear arrangement and cockpit comfort
It was rated worst for all around stability
Its best feature was considered its aileron performance above 300 mph, where it was rated 3rd best with 19% of the vote, after the P-51 and the F4U-1.
In 8th AF service, its kill claim to loss rate was the lowest of the three US fighter types.
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