This is OPERATIONAL data from the USSBS which I regard as DEFINITIVE

 

B-17E:
Empty Weight: 33,280lb
Loaded weight: 53,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 4,000lb
Range: 1100 miles with 4,000lb

B-17F:
Empty Weight: 34,000lb
Loaded weight: 65,500lb
Max Bomb Load: 8,000lb
Range: 1,250 miles with 6,000lb

B-17G:
Empty Weight: 38,000lb
Loaded weight: 65,500lb
Max Bomb Load: 9,600lb
Range: 1200 miles with 6,000lb

B-24D:
Empty Weight: 32,605lb
Loaded weight: 71,200lb
Max Bomb Load: 12,000lb
Range: 1400 miles with 8,000lb

B-24J:
Empty Weight: 38,000lb
Loaded weight: 71,200lb
Max Bomb Load: 12,800lb
Range: 1540 miles with 8,000lb

B-29:
Empty Weight: 71,360lb
Loaded weight: 138,,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 20,000lb
Range: 1950 miles with 20,000lb

Halifax Mk.I:
Empty Weight: 33,860lb
Loaded weight: 55,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 13,000lb
Range: 980 miles with 13,000lb

Halifax Mk.III
Empty Weight: 39,000lb
Loaded weight: 65,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 13,000lb
Range: 1260 miles with 13,000lb

Lancaster B.I:
Empty Weight: 41,000lb
Loaded weight: 72,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 14,000lb
Range: 1040 miles with 12,000lb

Lancaster B.III:
Empty Weight: 41,500lb
Loaded weight: 72,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 14,000lb
Range: 1040... miles with 14,000lb

Lancaster B.I (Special):
Empty Weight: 36,000lb
Loaded weight: 72,000lb
Max Bomb Load: 20,000lb - Grand Slam
Range: 660 miles with 20,000lb

Heinkel He 111H:
Empty Weight: 17,000lb
Loaded weight: 30,8650lb
Max Bomb Load: 7,165lb
Range: 910 miles with 6,000lb

Heinkel He 177A-5:
Empty Weight: 37,038lb
Loaded weight: 68,343lb
Max Bomb Load: 13,225lb
Range: 1200 miles with 11,000lb

 

If Stuart wants to insist that a B-17G could carry 9600 lbs of bombs, he better include all sorts of caveats, that include the special racks, the type of specialist bomb, the extreme overload condition, the short range, and the special lightening requirements, plus the usual caveat of "Ignore me, I'm just an internet fan-boy who's never been inside a B-17 and knows NOTHING about what I claim to know about it.     

 

B.

Aphrodite...., and you KNOW I KNOW this was a flying BOMB. It was a one way stripped out B-17 with nothing but engines, fuel, a suicide crew, and a radio steer guidance setup designed for a 500 nautical mile single trip at low altitude into a German coastal or nearby inland position.  

 

That plane did not drop bombs... it WAS a bomb, and from the record, an unstable, unsuccessful one.

 

So much for THAT BS.

 

B.

 

He is trying to take us for fools

the 96000lbs he claims is internal and confirmed by Boeing, the Beoeing site does say 96000 but it doesnt mention that it was only internal just that it was the MAX bomb load (doesnt seem to agree with the 176000 does it)

 

then he says 3750 failing to mention that this is ferry range and not operational

 

then he claims that he can prove the lanc didnt carry 2x grandslam yet failed to do so, then he says he provided links, I found the post and it says "search for 34 x 440 pound incendaries dropped on the Nazis" which returns vilch

 

he claims that a diagram he refers to doesnt show 34 shackles that can carry 440lbs incedaries (he thinks for some reason that all the shackles can be used at use, none of these shackles couldnt possibly block each other....

 

as i siad he thinks we are fools

He is trying to take us for fools

the 96000lbs he claims is internal and confirmed by Boeing, the Beoeing site does say 96000 but it doesnt mention that it was only internal just that it was the MAX bomb load (doesnt seem to agree with the 176000 does it)

 

then he says 3750 failing to mention that this is ferry range and not operational

 

then he claims that he can prove the lanc didnt carry 2x grandslam yet failed to do so, then he says he provided links, I found the post and it says "search for 34 x 440 pound incendaries dropped on the Nazis" which returns vilch

 

he claims that a diagram he refers to doesnt show 34 shackles that can carry 440lbs incedaries (he thinks for some reason that all the shackles can be used at use, none of these shackles couldnt possibly block each other....

 

as i siad he thinks we are fools

Thanks for the above posts -

 

What I can discern from his activity here and elsewhere is that he is probably not worth debating - it produces understandable frustration - you can see countless examples on the web where he is recognisable merely from the large quantity of inline 'red' text that makes every conversation he is involved with extremely frustrating and fragmented. In every case I've seen he inspires anger and bewilderment in those who try to debate him - even entire forums until his inevitable exile - he does seem to believe what he is saying is the truth but puts his views in such an impossible (to debate) format that it becomes a battle of attrition where anyone with anything else to do would rapidly lose interest. 

 

R 

For info

 

I think he may be looking at pics from schweinfurt which shows B17s dropping incenderys but if he had checked he would have found that they were M47A4's and didnt weigh 440lbs each but 68lbs each

 

the M47 was the largest indendary bomb I can find for the US of WW2, all the bigger ones were actually containers for the 4lb incendary

 

I cannot find a single source for the 440lbs, has anyone?

 

 

still no 440lbs bomb, however have found that the M17 bomb container carried 110 x 4lbs incendary bombs (but as it weighed a good 60lbs itself that takes it to around the 500lbs not the 440 quoted)

 

however these are easly idendified as they have a flat nose the full width of the bomb and no visible fuse

also found this litle snippet

 

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 105
Target: Bricy German Airfield,
Orleans, France
Crews Dispatched: 20 with 3 spares (unused)
Length of
Mission: 5 hours, 25 minutes
Bomb Load: 12 x 500 lb G.P. bombs
Bombing
Altitude: 15,000 ft
Ammo Fired: 1,780 rounds

 

this was mainly B17G's but with a few F's (4 I think)

 

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 106
Target: Dijon/Lonvic Airdrome,
Dijon, France
Crews Dispatched: 20 plus 2 spares
Crews Lost: 1 crew, Lt.
J.S. Bass, 1 KIA, 9 POW
Crew Members Lost or Wounded: Co-pilot Lt. C.G.
Doering KIA
Length of Mission: 7 hours, 10 minutes
Bomb Load: 6 or 12
500 lb M43 type bombs
Bombing Altitude: 15,500 ft
Ammo Fired: 425 rounds

now note here that due to range only those aircraft with tokyo tanks could carry the 12 x 500lbs

also found this litle snippet

 

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 105
Target: Bricy German Airfield,
Orleans, France
Crews Dispatched: 20 with 3 spares (unused)
Length of
Mission: 5 hours, 25 minutes
Bomb Load: 12 x 500 lb G.P. bombs
Bombing
Altitude: 15,000 ft
Ammo Fired: 1,780 rounds

 

this was mainly B17G's but with a few F's (4 I think)

 

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 106
Target: Dijon/Lonvic Airdrome,
Dijon, France
Crews Dispatched: 20 plus 2 spares
Crews Lost: 1 crew, Lt.
J.S. Bass, 1 KIA, 9 POW
Crew Members Lost or Wounded: Co-pilot Lt. C.G.
Doering KIA
Length of Mission: 7 hours, 10 minutes
Bomb Load: 6 or 12
500 lb M43 type bombs
Bombing Altitude: 15,500 ft
Ammo Fired: 425 rounds

now note here that due to range only those aircraft with tokyo tanks could carry the 12 x 500lbs