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Subject: Japan greenlights 22DDH, a real light aircraft carrier(JMSDF insists it's just a destroyer)
SlowMan    9/1/2009 2:50:07 AM
< http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=pol_30&k=2009083101127 > Japanese DoD has given the green light to 22DDH today, the follow-up to Hyuga-class. 22DDH is 37% larger than Hyuga and displaces 19,500 ton empty, loaded displacement unknown(Asian navies always disclose empty displacement instead of loaded or full displacement) http://obiekt.up.seesaa.net/image/gachar22ddh.jpg" /> A comparison between 16DDH(Hyuga) and 22DDH.
 
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Hamilcar       10/27/2009 11:44:31 PM

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/10/27/article-0-06FB4AFA000005DC-742_634x450.jpg" width="634" height="450" />

 

DDH 144 Kurama, the flagship of JMSDF's 2nd escort fleet has been busted in a collision with a 7,400 ton Korean container ship at Kanmon Bridge. Japan needs to accelerate 22DDH program to make up for Kurama's loss.

 
 
Japan warship collides with commercial vessel

By MARI YAMAGUCHI (AP) ? 14 hours ago

TOKYO — A Japanese navy destroyer has collided with a commercial vessel off southern Japan, starting fires on both ships and injuring one crew member, defense officials said Tuesday.

The destroyer JS Kurama collided with the South Korean container ship Carina Star on Tuesday night in the Kanmon Strait near the southern main island of Kyushu and both were engulfed in flames, a defense ministry spokesman said on condition of anonymity, citing protocol.

One Kurama crew member was slightly injured, the official said.

Public broadcaster NHK said none of the South Korean ship's crew members were injured. It also said the Japanese ship's bow was damaged.

TV footage showed orange flames rising up from the vessels in the dark. The collision site is about 530 miles (850 kilometers) southwest of Tokyo, between Kyusu and the western end of the Honshu main island.

The Kurama was on its way to its home port of Sasebo on Kyushu after serving as the flagship for the country's triennial fleet review Sunday at the port of Yokosuka.

Last year, a collision between a destroyer and a tuna trawler off the coast of Chiba, near Tokyo, left two fishermen dead. That accident triggered an uproar in Japan, where many people harbor pacifist sentiments and remain sensitive to anything related to the military.

Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa quickly held a news conference and apologized for the accident.

"We deeply apologize to the people for causing concerns," he said. "We will quickly find out what caused the accident."

Kitazawa said the government has set up a taskforce to investigate the collision.

 
============================================
 
It was a repairable collision, that did not threaten loss of vessel.
 
There is a lot of misrepresentation of fact and outright fantasy by a poster here. 
 
Explanation please.
 
 Why present an wildly inaccurate and slanted representation of the facts?
 

 
 
 
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SlowMan       10/28/2009 12:01:21 AM
@ sentinel28a

> The Kurama hasn't been sunk

I never said it went down, but it was close since the ammunition storage almost caught fire.

> A year in a shipyard at the most and she'll be back in action--not a permanent loss.

Why repair it when it's reaching the end of its 30=year life soon?

@ Hamilcar

>  It was a repairable collision, that did not threaten loss of vessel.

Well, Kurama could be decommissioned while sitting on the repair dock. Why repair a ship that's so close to decomissioning anyway?

> Why present an wildly inaccurate and slanted representation of the facts?

I know facts that you don't. 
 
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Hamilcar       10/28/2009 12:14:22 AM

@ sentinel28a



> The Kurama hasn't been sunk



I never said it went down, but it was close since the ammunition storage almost caught fire.



> A year in a shipyard at the most and she'll be back in action--not a permanent loss.



Why repair it when it's reaching the end of its 30=year life soon?



@ Hamilcar



>  It was a repairable collision, that did not threaten loss of vessel.



Well, Kurama could be decommissioned while sitting on the repair dock. Why repair a ship that's so close to decomissioning anyway?



> Why present an wildly inaccurate and slanted representation of the facts?



I know facts that you don't

The claim must be proved. From what invalid and factually erroneous claims I read you post, elsewhere, I must insist that you prove that claim. What verifiable facts do you possess, that indicate the vessel will be scrapped?
 
I want sources for your claims. 
   
 
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maruben    According to our expert the Japanese press (Kyodo News) is lying   10/28/2009 9:24:13 AM

MSDF warship collides with S. Korean freighter

 

Kyodo News

The Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer Kurama collided with a South Korean cargo vessel in the Kammon Strait in Fukuoka Prefecture at around 8 p.m. Tuesday, causing a fire on the warship, the Defense Ministry said.

Three crew members of the 5,200-ton Kurama sustained minor burns and light injuries, while no one on the freighter was hurt, the ministry said.

No details about the fire were immediately available, but footage on NHK TV showed flames rising from the bow, which appeared to have suffered significant damage.

According to the ministry, the Kurama's bow houses a paint storage locker.

Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa told a hastily arranged news conference that the Kurama crew was scrambling to contain the fire.

The incident is "extremely regrettable," Kitazawa said.

He said in its current condition, the Kurama wasn't able to move on its own.

According to early reports, the commercial vessel is a South Korean container ship.

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maruben    According to our expert the Japanese press (Kyodo News) is lying   10/28/2009 9:33:17 AM

MSDF warship collides with S. Korean freighter

 

Kyodo News

The Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyer Kurama collided with a South Korean cargo vessel in the Kammon Strait in Fukuoka Prefecture at around 8 p.m. Tuesday, causing a fire on the warship, the Defense Ministry said.

Three crew members of the 5,200-ton Kurama sustained minor burns and light injuries, while no one on the freighter was hurt, the ministry said.

No details about the fire were immediately available, but footage on NHK TV showed flames rising from the bow, which appeared to have suffered significant damage.

According to the ministry, the Kurama's bow houses a paint storage locker.

Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa told a hastily arranged news conference that the Kurama crew was scrambling to contain the fire.

The incident is "extremely regrettable," Kitazawa said.

He said in its current condition, the Kurama wasn't able to move on its own.

According to early reports, the commercial vessel is a South Korean container ship.

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maruben    More info   10/28/2009 9:59:14 AM
The possible cause of the fire could be that electric cables were cut by the collision and that caused a spark close to the paint deposit in the bow. Then paint started to burn and the fire broke.
The bow has a large number of cables and the paint deposit.
 
 
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SlowMan       10/28/2009 10:02:18 AM
@ Hamilcar

> The claim must be proved.

Do the readings yourself.

> that indicate the vessel will be scrapped?

22DDH is a replacement for Shirane and Kurama. This is why I posted Kurama collision here in this thread, since Kurama's damage directly affects 22DDH's schedule. Why repair Kurama at great expense when it will be replaced by 22DDH in four years anyway? JMSDF may just put Haruna(which is being replaced by Hyuga) in place of Kurama and then build 22DDH sooner.

Once again, I am not responsible for your demonstrated lack of knowledge.

@ maruben

> As you can see no details of the cause of the fire are public and the possible cause may be a paint deposit in the bow.

That was known since yesterday.
 
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maruben    lie   10/28/2009 10:28:49 AM

@ Hamilcar



> The claim must be proved.



Do the readings yourself.



> that indicate the vessel will be scrapped?



22DDH is a replacement for Shirane and Kurama. This is why I posted Kurama collision here in this thread, since Kurama's damage directly affects 22DDH's schedule. Why repair Kurama at great expense when it will be replaced by 22DDH in four years anyway? JMSDF may just put Haruna(which is being replaced by Hyuga) in place of Kurama and then build 22DDH sooner.



Once again, I am not responsible for your demonstrated lack of knowledge.



@ maruben



> As you can see no details of the cause of the fire are public and the possible cause may be a paint deposit in the bow.



That was known since yesterday.

I do not care whether you know it or not and that information was not posted before. Surely there are other posters and readers willing to know what happened and since you are not a reliable source of information about Japan, it is my duty to contribute to keep under control your BS and misiformation about by country.
 
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Hamilcar    Thank you, Maruben, for the updated reported information.   10/28/2009 6:42:17 PM
Slowman was not able to back up his claims at all when challenged as to the accuracy of his claims.

That concludes my dealings with Slowman.
 
Others may use him as a source of verifiable information. I will not. 
 
 
 
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sentinel28a       10/29/2009 1:38:16 AM
Okay, I'm confused.  The Kurama is a guided-missile destroyer.  The 22DDH class are carriers.  Now I can see retiring the Shirane class that the Kurama is part of--they are getting old.  And SlowMan does make sense that it might make more sense just to retire an old ship rather than fix it...though personally I don't see that happening.  The damage is fairly minor and shouldn't keep her out of action for more than a year, if that long (the Port Royal is already back at sea, and she went aground), while the 22DDHs will probably take four years to complete.  Japan's not exactly got plenty of ships.
 
As far as the fire goes, it's nowhere near the magazines.  Fire is always a risk at sea, but there was no chance the Kurama would've gone down without the crew being completely incompetent; had the fire spread, they could've flooded the magazines to keep them from exploding.
 
I'm not sure why this incident is even mentioned here.  It's likely the Shiranes will be retired anyway as a cost-saving measure once the 22DDHs begin production, though I think the JMSDF will wait until the 22DDHs are in service.  It's a non-argument.
 
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