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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
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gf0012-aust       8/4/2009 5:38:14 PM
beaten to the punch by Phaid... :) images are always helpful...
 
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Herald12345    Gentlemen.   8/4/2009 6:54:31 PM
Cough  "Or redirected" Cough..
 
 
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MK       8/4/2009 6:59:30 PM
The APG-77s array is angled? That's news to me! Thought the APG-79 was the first one with an angled array, followed by the -81.
 
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Herald12345       8/4/2009 8:01:35 PM

The APG-77s array is angled? That's news to me! Thought the APG-79 was the first one with an angled array, followed by the -81.

http://dxdt.ru/wp-content/2008/01/ngapg81.jpg" height="343" width="528" />
 
It helps if you know what you look at, MK.
 
Herald
.
 
 
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VelocityVector       8/4/2009 8:05:34 PM

Just to add, it's not merely the angle of the antennae plate which contributes towards reduction.  The internal structure and materials of the radome itself can attenuate the relatively scattered inbound waves all without creating significant issues for the local radar itself.  which ups price. 0.02

v^2

 
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Herald12345    !@#$%^&*()_+ ! Second try.   8/4/2009 8:30:35 PM



The APG-77s array is angled? That's news to me! Thought the APG-79 was the first one with an angled array, followed by the -81.



http://dxdt.ru/wp-content/2008/01/ngapg81.jpg" height="343" width="528" />

 

It helps if you know what you look at, MK.

<a href=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EtHdb5TtZaU/SRfrh3VxaTI/AAAAAAAAACw/hSH1_C-eiOc/s320/240px-APG-77-1A.jpg" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EtHdb5TtZaU/SRfrh3VxaTI/AAAAAAAAACw/hSH1_C-eiOc/s320/240px-APG-77-1A.jpg" height="312" width="384" /> 
 
 

Herald


.


 

Capture feature doesn't work for some strange reason.
 
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french stratege       8/4/2009 8:41:26 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SOyih7iiEPI/AAAAAAAAAP0/bsUWsIzSIrQ/s400/RBE-2+AESA-1.jpg" width="370" border="0" />
 
In the case of the Rafale, radar is angled as well
It is the whole front part of the radar which is angled
You can see the reard attachment and angles , plus inclination of surface on the top
However angle is lower than in former US AESA display which means that optimisation is different.
After all Rafale is optimised for low altitude penetration.
If you know basic RCS mesurement you would known that a very slight angle produce already a -30 DBSM
 
See page 23 RCS of a flat plate according to angle with a sort of decreasing sinusoid (a little similar to inteferometric young holes) of RCS
 
or here page 6

Figure 6. Comparison between full-scale and

model measurements of a flat plate.

 
 
 
 
 
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french stratege       8/4/2009 8:51:37 PM
As a gift for our US readers
Some interesting confirmation in a public NATO document of what I have explained before:

19A.A.1 THE FOUR BASIC METHODS OF RCSR

There are generally only four basic techniques used for reducing RCS. They are:

? Shaping

? Radar absorbing materials

? Passive cancellation

? Active cancellation

Each of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages.

 
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Das Kardinal       8/4/2009 9:20:01 PM
With all that talk about angled radar antennas, I wonder if the research about cold plasmas used to selectively filter radio frequencies (thus "hiding" a radar antenna) has yielded results or if it's another pie-in-the-sky thing.
 
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Herald12345       8/4/2009 9:40:33 PM
Okay. Lets deal with your ignorance with some FACTS. 
 
1. The MIT subscale LODAR simulator only mimics model RCS in a benign environment. It does not include weather effects or enemy countermeasures effects or your own (French) electronic propogation mistakes. so that citation is basically MEANINGLESS. It was designed as a first cut estimator procedure for US to show what problems we will have when we go full scale. Its most like a windtunnel in that it gives US the first rough cut as WE work on shape.
 
Second:
 
 
Since then, we've moved on from those fairy tales as more about EW and LO strategies have revealed themselves to those who actually applied physics to the problem. So what did you actually tell us, here?
 
Active cancellation or signal phasing has been shown to not work well. The time clocking is not fine enough. I told you that more than a year ago, when you first tried to run that falsehood on me, trying to take me for some fanboy patsy..
 
So you actually brought nothing and just discreditted yourself.
 
What's next? Plasma stealth?
 
Herald
 

As a gift for our US readers

Some interesting confirmation in a public NATO document of what I have explained before:

link

19A.A.1 THE FOUR BASIC METHODS OF RCSR



There are generally only four basic techniques used for reducing RCS. They are:

? Shaping

? Radar absorbing materials

? Passive cancellation

? Active cancellation

Each of these methods have their advantages and disadvantages.

 
Quote    Reply



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