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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       7/24/2009 3:42:41 PM
Herald , your lovely link doesn 't provide anything against what I say and far from it . The last part is interesting but the main talk is about "semi-active" guidance . Old stuff ...
(I keep the link , mind)
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Look at the weather effects charts, poster   7/24/2009 3:50:30 PM

Herald , your lovely link doesn 't provide anything against what I say and far from it . The last part is interesting but the main talk is about "semi-active" guidance . Old stuff ...

(I keep the link , mind)

 

Cheers .


on the attenuation effect of signal, and look again at HOW guidance works (what antenna arrays you need and where you should expect them on a missile body and then stop lying about this stuff, 
 
Do you understand me? Stop lying. I've given you more than enough resources. You no longer have any excuse to lie.
 
Herald
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/24/2009 5:06:09 PM
Herald , for the last time , the Mid-link antennas are on the rear of the Mica .
Case closed .
 
One more time , I would like to come back on some of the Rafale 's stealth features (maybe I should start a new thread) .
In this regard , most engineers agree that Dassault from France is ahead in Europe and Saab from Sweden being a close second . Both Countries are more or less running the "stealth" business in Europe .
It shows . 
Dassault said a long time ago that the Rafale RCS was 10 times lower than the M2000 , Sweden said that the Gripen RCS was "very low" . The Eurofighter Team also said that the Typhoon had some RCS management .
Few pictures will help the reader to understand and look by himself .
The Rafale ' s nose RCS is very low :
 
http://a.imagehost.org/0099/getData3.jpg" width="600" height="400" /> 
 
The "cross" shape is telling as well as the curved spaces in between the airframe and the air intakes . Look also at the link in between the fuselage and the wings .
 
The air intakes are always the main RCS problem especialy from the front and Dassault went further than Saab and Typhoon into the stealth design :
 
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/614/earafaleweb.gif" width="640" height="480" />
 
Notice the real "S" shape and the RAM coating .  The fan blades are not visible from the front , the air intakes are also hidden from any look-down position .
 
Typhoon from the front :
 
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6759/eurofighter4.jpg" width="640" height="461" /> 
 
3 Rafales with 2 Typhoons . Look how the Typhoon air intakes looks like the F-16 Viper 's intakes :
 
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6209/defile2ye0.jpg" width="640" height="275" /> 
 
The Gripen : 
 
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4273/thenastyangleofasaabgrie.jpg" width="640" height="453" />

Of course , this is MUCH better : the F-35 :
 
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8770/25572713384eec8de679o.jpg" width="640" height="427" />
 
But I hope that everybody understood what I mean .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/24/2009 5:55:25 PM
Some readers will be happy to know how the "sensor fusion" really works onboard the Rafale .
Here is a drawing showing the complete system ramifications . Study it :
 
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4977/capteursk.jpg" width="603" height="402" />
 
This is 5th Generation regarding the data-fusion and the computing power (Spectra also has its own 3 processors on top to compute data on the fly without help from the mainframe computers (MTU and EMTI)) .
 
Link that to a 200km bubble EM detection range , a very efficient Autopilot and you get something who will evade most threats without being detected in the first place .
The last RedFlag proved that the Rafale could penetrate unnoticed deep into heavily EM territory and fire its AASMs with total inpunity and come back to base (while recording every EM emissions around for later purposes) .
 
Did the  Gripen , Typhoon , SH , Strike-Eagle , SU-30 , etc , archived it ? As far as we know , NO .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 
 
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Rufus       7/24/2009 5:57:11 PM
"But I hope that everybody understood what I mean ."
 
Yes, that you are a clueless dolt that knows about as much about stealth as you do about playing a banjo.
 
The Rafale was not designed with stealth in mind.  It was simply not a consideration at the time it was first developed.  Late in the process once France had an oppotunity to see where the US was going with stealth designs a few features were retro-fitted to the Rafale, leaving it with a moderately reduced RCS by 4th generation standards.
 
Far better than an Su-27 perhaps, but not nearly as good as a Super Hornet. 
 
In no case is it fair to call a Rafale a stealthy aircraft.  Canards, a fixed refueling probe, a vertical tail, the heat shield just above the engine at the rear of the aircraft... generally poor fit and finish... nothing about that design is intended to be stealthy.
 
 
Naturally since you have been lying about this for years now you aren't going to stop today.
 
 
 
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Rufus       7/24/2009 6:08:27 PM
"The last RedFlag proved that the Rafale could penetrate unnoticed deep into heavily EM territory and fire its AASMs with total inpunity and come back to base (while recording every EM emissions around for later purposes) ."
 
More lies I see...
 

It is stupidity like the above that removes any doubt that you are a troll.
 
Red Flag has been explained to you probably dozens of times.  Red Flag is not some idiot fanboy's idea of an aerial competition with a big shiny trophy at the end.  Red Flag is a simulated air-war with some very specific rules, intended to educate its participants.
 
At no point were Rafale's flying alone doing anything with "impunity."  To even suggest they might have been demonstrates an utter and complete ignorance of what Red Flag is, or a willingness to shamelessly lie.  In your case I think it is a mixture of both. 
 
All aircraft at Red Flag work as part of a team. If Rafales were in the air practicing a low level attack, there would have been a heck of a lot of other aircraft in the air doing other missions, including providing top cover for the Rafales.  Why? Because that is the WHOLE POINT of Red Flag.  If all you were going to do was fly Rafale's low all by themselves you wouldn't bring them all the way to Red Flag to do it. 
 
There are simulated badguys at Red Flag, and they will simulate killing you... but Red Flag is not a contest, and is not designed to test or prove specific platforms.   Red Flag is about learning to fight as a team against a realistic, but decidedly inferior, simulated opponent.
 
Even an idiot fanboy should know this by now.
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/24/2009 6:09:52 PM
Rufus :
""The Rafale was not designed with stealth in mind""
 
Absolute BS . Actually , I can 't believe you said that because you should know by now that it has been designed as a "discrete" Fighter from the blueprint . It is everywhere on the Net for God sake !
Pfff ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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Rufus       7/24/2009 6:19:24 PM
"Absolute BS . Actually , I can 't believe you said that because you should know by now that it has been designed as a "discrete" Fighter from the blueprint . It is everywhere on the Net for God sake !
Pfff ..."
 
Ah yes, according to our resident fanboy truck driver.
 
We get it, if a French company glued wings onto a dumpster you would be all over this message board telling us how this was a 5th generation dumpster, and a "discrete" dumpster at that!
 
What the hell is "discrete" supposed to mean anyways?  The Rafale is not a stealthy aircraft.  Anyone that isn't a total idiot can tell that just from looking at it. 
 
You love it because it is French, so what?  What about that drives you to spend so much time posting lies about it on the internet?  Even if you managed to fool someone, it wouldn't change a thing.
 
 
 

 
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Bluewings12       7/24/2009 6:21:34 PM
Rufus , you know jack sh*t about DACT excercises . The only thing you did get right is this : "Red Flag is a simulated air-war with some very specific rules, intended to educate its participants." 
The rest is utter bollocks . You should try to meet some pilots and educate yourself like I did .
 
Listen to me : within the decided rules , do your best to fulfill the mission . This is the motto .
I have talked to pilots , other frenchmen friends of mine also talked to pilots and maintenance team and I can assure you that within the rules , every shot is allowed , even under the belt . believe me . If it wasn 't the case , nobody would learn anything , you stupid man !
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    For the last time you are a liar.l   7/24/2009 6:23:51 PM

Herald , for the last time , the Mid-link antennas are on the rear of the Mica .

Case not proven

One more time , I would like to come back on some of the Rafale 's stealth features (maybe I should start a new thread) .

In this regard , most engineers agree that Dassault from France is ahead in Europe and Saab from Sweden being a close second . Both Countries are more or less running the "stealth" business in Europe .

It shows . 

Dassault said a long time ago that the Rafale RCS was 10 times lower than the M2000 , Sweden said that the Gripen RCS was "very low" . The Eurofighter Team also said that the Typhoon had some RCS management .


Few pictures will help the reader to understand and look by himself .


The Rafale ' s nose RCS is very low :

Britain is Europe's leader in LO technology. France hasn't got a clue.
 
 

http://a.imagehost.org/0099/getData3.jpg" width="600" height="400" /> 

 

The "cross" shape is telling as well as the curved spaces in between the airframe and the air intakes . Look also at the link in between the fuselage and the wings .
 
The inlet tunnels are almost perfect radar reflectors  as is the vertical stabilizer. That is a HUGE spike. Then there is the canopy seam, the canards, the yirret mounted sensor, the seam where the radome cover doesn't blend into the fuselage, etc. .

The air intakes are always the main RCS problem especialy from the front and Dassault went further than Saab and Typhoon into the stealth design :

 

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/614/earafaleweb.gif" width="640" height="480" />

See the bad seam fits of the tinnel segments? See the manufacture defects at the inlet cowl?
 

Notice the real "S" shape and the RAM coating .  The fan blades are not visible from the front , the air intakes are also hidden from any look-down position .
 
Typhoon from the front :

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6759/eurofighter4.jpg" width="640" height="461" /> 

3 Rafales with 2 Typhoons . Look how the Typhoon air intakes looks like the F-16 Viper 's intakes :
 
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6209/defile2ye0.jpg" width="640" height="275" /> 

 I actually see a cleaner better finished less cluttered spikey Typhoon with less botched reflector traps than the Squall..Shouldn't showed that picture and made the stupid statement you made, poster.

The Gripen : 


http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4273/thenastyangleofasaabgrie.jpg" width="640" height="453" />
Not so good for you. Reminds me of  THIS:
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Four_Super_Hornets.jpg" width="1000" height="1000" />
 

Of course , this is MUCH better : the F-35 :

 

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8770/25572713384eec8de679o.jpg" width="640" height="427" />


 The chines are SQUARED for a reason but then an incompetent like you would not know WHY that shaping was chosen

But I hope that everybody understood what I mean .

Yeah we do. You don't know what you discuss again.
 
Still trying to BS us, liar

 

Radar Cross Section Fundamentals

There are two basic approaches to passive radar cross section reduction: shaping to minimize backscatter, and coating for energy absorption and cancellation. Both of these approaches have to be used coherently in aircraft design to achieve the required low observable levels over the appropriate frequency range in the electromagnetic spectrum.


Shaping

There is a tremendous advan
 
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