Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
JFKY       7/11/2009 12:51:50 PM

,,,And we do not "know" that it does not have a phaser and some photon torpedoes, either.

 

<sigh!>

 

Seagull, I thought you were one of the good guys.

 


The F4 version will have them, and a cloaking device...soon ALL will regret not buying the Rafale!
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/11/2009 1:02:41 PM

There is a newspaper in France, maybe Air Fan, which reported a year ago that Spectra has a special mode ("the third") we do not even use in France so as not to be spied.

 

My point ? We don't know what is Spectra.


All EW and COMMS have unclassified operating modes distinct from wartime modes so as not to give intelligence to potential opponents about how they work for obvious reasons. SPECTRA is not unique in this regard and just about every EW suite from the US, Russia, France, China, UK, Israel and other EW heavies do this. This isn't something that should be exaggerated into more magical things SPECTRA does. FAF and FN will have to be as careful as any other nation with regard to operational security AND knowledge of the threats SPECTRA comes up against.

-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/11/2009 1:05:32 PM
Gotta give it to French marketing, coming up with a name like SPECTRA really generated a buzz. Now if only they could have properly managed the Rafale Program with regard to cost, schedules and actual real capabilities there is no reason that plane could not have been as successful as the M2000 or better on the export market.

-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

Seagull       7/11/2009 2:06:38 PM
Where in hell did i :
 
-said that the fact that the third mode isn't used in France shows that Spectra is unique in the world ?
 
-suggested it makes Spectra magical ?
 
My point was just to tell you that Spectra also work as a sig management suite, and that no one here is qualified to denigrate it, or underestimate it. I'm not overestimating it. I think it's reasonable to say that "we don't know", when someone here tried to deny a capability, and I was not talking about the Warpig's science fiction (but what a stupid reaction you had, Warpig).
 
So, i agree with DA, all those suites have top secret modes, etc. Of course.
 
Should i be more accurate : i do not buy the active cancellation story. I think it's only a legend born in the B Sweetman's imagination.
 
DarthAmerica : It's not over yet for the Rafale on the export market.
 
 
And, please, everybody, don't put words in my mouth like Warpig and JFKY did. That really give me the feeling that you just want to discredit me just because (sorry) i defend reasonably the Rafale.
 
Up to now, i've no reason to stay.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       7/11/2009 2:13:33 PM
Ummm not over for the Rafale in some markets maybe. But it will be tough. The FAF and FN have to fully integrate it into their own force mix, integrate more weapons and fit it out with and "updated" avionics package so that it's competitive with the state of the art.

-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       7/11/2009 3:52:40 PM
Just a quick one,
 
If anyone does NOT think bluewings is an idiot please state the reasons why below.
 
I will be interested to see the response.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/11/2009 9:36:12 PM
Reactive :
""If anyone does NOT think bluewings is an idiot please state the reasons why below.""
 
I don 't think BW is an idiot :-)
Reasons : he has 5 diplomas , one being a Bac pro , he was a Sergeant Chef in the French Air Force Commandos and went twice in the sand box and never get one of his man wounded . He has been a very successful battle/drill scenario designer for a US military software company , his IQ is 145 .
**********************
I said earlier to Seagull that I was looking into the latest incarnation of SPECTRA . I am trying to dig stuff on the latest war modes but I can only get few little pieces here and there so far , nothing revolutionary ... Until I can get a decent a clear picture , I will not post anything about it .
Nevertheless , I can say that SPECTRA has indeed improved . We know that the ECM suite is using interferometry to detect , pinpoint and track adverse EM emissions with great accuracy . This capability (so far) did not allow the aircraft to fire passively at a target because it only worked in 2D , x and y axis . The "z" axis (3D) was provided by the LRF but only up to the LRF range (35km) .
It seems that SPECTRA is now capable to work in 3D thus providing a passive firing solution at longer range (note the conditional) . At the Le Bourget Airshow , Thalès released a new video showing their gizmos onboard the Rafale :
 
h*tp://vimeo.com/5108704?hd=1
 
Use full screen and pause at 00:51, then read : 
"contributing to the tactical situation awareness : 3D localization allowing the Rafale to fire missiles thanks to SPECTRA informations"
 
This fact alone (if true) totally changes the way the FAF and MN Rafales are going to fight BVR . I can feel the "Wow" factor :-)
How Thalès is doing the trick is unknown to me but my guess is threefold :
-1) Spectra AESA twin antennas have improved
-2) Algorythms and software coding have improved
-3) Computing power (number crushing) has improved (The Rafale F2 already had 50 time more computing power than the F-22) .
 
I 'll post some more later ...
 
Cheers .

 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       7/11/2009 10:32:43 PM
The Thalès video is also showing a lot of things , the most important one being the sensor fusion which I believe is more advanced than anything currently flying operationally . The F-22 tranche 30 doesn 't have 60% of the stuff found on Rafale like mini IRSTs (Mica IR) , FSO , long range TV cam , top ECM suite , passive firing , etc ...
 
I 've said many times that the actual lack of a real IRST  was not such a problem because the IR Micas are used as IRSTs up to 35km which is better than nothing . The seekers can search by themselves and show to the pilot what they see on two of the side displays . This allowed Dassault 's funding to go for an even better optical long range TV cam with a quoted range of over 100km . When you think about it , it is a very clever choice . Watching on TV what the opposition is doing 100km away gives you a huge advantage in situation awareness , and it is totally passive and undetectable .
 
Again , I am sorry to say but I do not know any other aircraft who has such means , not even the Typhoon , not even the Gripen , not even the F-22 , not even the latest SU . I am not bashing any other aircraft , I am just putting forwards facts about the Rafale . 
I am not saying that the Rafale is the best thing after sliced bread , just that the Jet is very capable .
 
Then , if SPECTRA can help the Pilot to fire a Meteor passively at long range you can imagine how the enemy pilot is going to sweat ...
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Beryoza       7/11/2009 10:53:42 PM
There is no doubt that being able to visually inspect a target at very long ranges is useful, but you cannot use FLIR as your primary sensor for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.
 
Quote    Reply

Beryoza       7/11/2009 10:55:28 PM
"Again , I am sorry to say but I do not know any other aircraft who has such means , not even the Typhoon , not even the Gripen , not even the F-22 , not even the latest SU"
 
Just about any aircraft that can mount a FLIR targeting pod, from the Su-24 to the Shornet, has a similar capability ;)
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics