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Subject: Rafale Thread
Softwar    3/9/2009 9:47:25 AM
Started with hope that BW will limit his comments here instead of in every other Fighter thread. I'll start off with: 1 - no export sales 2 - no laser designator 3 - no AESA 4 - overpriced 4th gen fighter
 
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Brad Piff       5/19/2010 4:17:05 AM
people tend to forget aircrafts like the F-22 and F-35 only have their stealth avantage when having weapons inside their bays, in reality droptanks would be frequently used on the F-35. The Rafale with only 2 micas is regarded as LO by dassault atleast, an the Mica's could be locked on a target 60-70km away, by only using the sensors in the missiles.
 
In theory the F-35 an F-22 have a great avantage....but well planed operations play their parts.
 
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Hamilcar    That is ridiiculous    5/19/2010 4:42:14 AM

people tend to forget aircrafts like the F-22 and F-35 only have their stealth avantage when having weapons inside their bays, in reality droptanks would be frequently used on the F-35. The Rafale with only 2 micas is regarded as LO by dassault atleast, an the Mica's could be locked on a target 60-70km away, by only using the sensors in the missiles.

 

In theory the F-35 an F-22 have a great avantage....but well planed operations play their parts.



1 Maximum flyout out is not maximum effective range for a missile.
2. An aeroshell that gives a permanent hard return signal is not low observable  Combine that with a radar that leaks sidelobe noise and its dead meat at all beam and forward aspects. Rear aspect? It can't outrun the radio noise and infrared emissions of its own SNECMAS. 
3. The corporate word of Dassault is like the corporate word of LockMart, worthless. You test their products and count up the magnitude of the lies and hope that you can live with the difference between those lies and the truth. 
 
H.
 
 

 
 
 
 
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StobieWan       5/19/2010 4:44:34 AM
Why on earth would you carry drop tanks on an F35? It's got internal fuel of about 18,000...The odd ferry mission for sure but they'd be the exception,

 

Ian
 
people tend to forget aircrafts like the F-22 and F-35 only have their stealth avantage when having weapons inside their bays, in reality droptanks would be frequently used on the F-35. The Rafale with only 2 micas is regarded as LO by dassault atleast, an the Mica's could be locked on a target 60-70km away, by only using the sensors in the missiles.

 

In theory the F-35 an F-22 have a great avantage....but well planed operations play their parts.



 
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Ispose    Hmmm   5/19/2010 1:22:50 PM
If the Rafale can only lock onto the drop tanks....then drop the tanks if you detect inbound missiles....biggest damm chaff package ever.
And stobie is right....the f-35 is designed to carry out its missions with internal fuel
 
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Rufus       5/19/2010 4:20:22 PM
"Why on earth would you carry drop tanks on an F35? It's got internal fuel of about 18,000...The odd ferry mission for sure but they'd be the exception"
 
 
The Rafale on the other hand is heavily reliant on drop tanks as the only way for it to achieve a useful combat radius.
 
...and no, that isn't "bashing" the Rafale, it is just a fact.  (The same is true of the F-16, F-18, etc)
 
 
The Rafale was not designed with stealth as a major consideration.  The Rafale is not a "stealthy" aircraft.  Even if the Rafale's airframe were stealthy it would still be reliant on drop tanks and external weapons to do anything useful which would make the stealthy airframe more or less irrelevant.
 
 
 
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StobieWan       5/19/2010 5:07:17 PM
Ah, but the F35 has to suffer the massive drag penalty of an internal weapons bay. Or so I guess will be the next Rafale/F35 reply. 

Nothing against the Rafale, wish 'em the best of luck in export deals and I honestly think it's a nice looking bird, but it's not stealthy and it's a small airframe designed to fit onto small carriers. As such, it's destined to have to dangle a lot of kit under it's wings, and the range of ordnance hanging therefrom is limited because there's not a lot of export customers to fund the integration efforts.

The F35 is a thriving multinational partnership which is a full generation beyond the Rafale. Nothing derogatory or demeaning about that, it's just a fact.

Ian

 
 
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