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Subject: Rafale Thread
Softwar    3/9/2009 9:47:25 AM
Started with hope that BW will limit his comments here instead of in every other Fighter thread. I'll start off with: 1 - no export sales 2 - no laser designator 3 - no AESA 4 - overpriced 4th gen fighter
 
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usajoe1    FS   6/18/2009 5:49:55 PM
I don't understand at all why the Rafale is so easily discounted. It match our national needs, is better than a SU35
 
In some areas it is better than the Sukhoi, like a better EW suite, better RCS and a better deep strike package, with better standoff weapons, bombs and A2G munitions. However, the Sukhoi has a much more powerful radar, with better long range AAM's, it has more powerful engines, better speed at altitude, has a larger wing loading capability and WVR, has a better chance against the curent model of the Rafale, becuase of the HMS and better AAM, the R-73.
 
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 5:51:53 PM
usajoe , your post does not hold water .
The IAF pilots are indeed real pros but Vipers Blk-60 and Rafales are not Mig-19s . The UAE have an excellent radar coverage and the IAF would indeed have a hard time to get the upper hand you want it or not .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 5:59:45 PM
Joe , the SU will be dead before it can use its R-73 .
Russian radars are a no-no against Spectra (Rafale) and ICMS MkII (M2000-5s) , then the Russian BVR missiles will be jammed in the same way that we jam the AMRAAM . But Mica will hit .
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Assertions are lies.   6/18/2009 6:13:26 PM

Joe , the SU will be dead before it can use its R-73 .

Russian radars are a no-no against Spectra (Rafale) and ICMS MkII (M2000-5s) , then the Russian BVR missiles will be jammed in the same way that we jam the AMRAAM . But Mica will hit .


 

Cheers .


 
MICA didn't work either.
 
India uses RUSSIAN gear and knows what it can do..
 
I so love doing this to you!
 
Herald
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 6:48:55 PM
Are you off your mind Herald ?
 
Your link is dating from mid April and since , the technical evaluation is done and all aircrafts are still in the race .
WTF are you talking about ?
 
Then , I enjoy the "Spectra failed the testing" , lol !  You don 't have a clue do you ?
Herald , as usual you are pathetic ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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usajoe1       6/18/2009 7:07:47 PM
 
usajoe , your post does not hold water .
The IAF pilots are indeed real pros but Vipers Blk-60 and Rafales are not Mig-19s . The UAE have an excellent radar coverage and the IAF would indeed have a hard time to get the upper hand you want it or not .
 
Remember when the Israelis were outnumberd and in some cases outclassed with the MIG-21's, which at the time was the best A2A fighter in the world, until the introduction of the F-4. Now can you please tell me who came out on top in those engagements? Israel has the best A2A record in modern jet age history for a reason.
 
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french stratege       6/18/2009 7:29:32 PM

 
usajoe , your post does not hold water .

The IAF pilots are indeed real pros but Vipers Blk-60 and Rafales are not Mig-19s . The UAE have an excellent radar coverage and the IAF would indeed have a hard time to get the upper hand you want it or not .


Remember when the Israelis were outnumberd and in some cases outclassed with the MIG-21's, which at the time was the best A2A fighter in the world, until the introduction of the F-4. Now can you please tell me who came out on top in those engagements? Israel has the best A2A record in modern jet age history for a reason.
And it seems that Israelis were fighting Mig 21 with Mirage III in six day war.
LOL
Israelis pilots were much more trained than arabs of Egypt or Syrian
Now UAE fighters jets fly a lot and their pilots are mercenaries and french trained for a part.
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 8:39:03 PM
FS :
""and their pilots are mercenaries""
 
Do you have an idea on who they could be ?
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig    Bump   4/19/2010 1:16:24 PM
There's no way I'm letting a hilarious thread like this one slip away!
 
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Das Kardinal       5/13/2010 6:20:59 AM
I'm bumping this very appropriately named thread to include the latest info in the May DSI issue. I bought the magazine this morning and it is indeed an interesting read, talking about various aspects of the program.
Since someone already did a translation on MP.netopy-paste them in. They're  little rough but accurate enough (and its saves me time doing it ! :-) ).
For those who aren't familiar with DSI, it's the leading defense and military affairs magazine in France. So it's, in my view, a valid source (they also did a recent issue about French ASW which was chock-full of little details I had never seen anywhere before).


RECO NG: France sees far 
DSI 59 mai 2010


The RECO NG brought France into the world of 100% digital recognition. Its experimentation in the CEAM Mont-de-Marsan precedes with a few months its entry into service in the forces.

Omnirole aircraft , the Rafale will gradually replace seven or eight different aircraft models within the carrier aviation or the Air Force. Setting in service the RECO NG pod shares the same logic of versatility, since the Thales pod replace three systems: the Mirage IVP container CT52 for strategical recognition , the sensors of the Mirage F1 CR and the Super Etendard ModerniseC RM 280 photo frame for tactical reconnaissance. All with a wider range of use, a better image quality and of course all the advantages inherent to digital imaging and real time use. The couple Rafale/RECO NG will therefore fully occupy the operational space between the UAV and the satellite [...]

Happy medium.

The RECO NG pod was raised for the first time in the late 1990s, in 2000 with the drafting of a first sheet of military characteristics. Ten years later, how is it? The program gave birth to a beautiful baby of 4.6 m long and 1100 kg, characteristics compatible with the Rafale and Mirage 2000 [..] Twelve RECO NG have been ordered by the Air Force and eight by naval aviation. The first two copies of series are used since November 2009 by CEAM Mont-de-Marsan in the context of an experiment. At the end of March 2010, forty flights have already been made on the hundred planned. And the pod is gradually showing the immense field of its capabilities. The optical of the HA/MA (high altitude / medium altitude) sensor located in the front offers a large lens for mapping and shooting at middle range, or a long lens for a clear picture from a safe distance. The precise number of the focal length is not public "but it is between the Presto which is 610 mm and the UK Raptor sensor is 110 inches (2800 mm)" one says in Mont-de- Marsan. As impressive as it is, the focus displayed by the Raptor would be difficult to use in operation as requiring an optimum visibility. The shooting at very long distance generally requires to climb beyond the level 300 (30,000 feet or 9144 m) altitude difficult to reach for the Tornado with the Raptor under the fuselage ... The RECO NG would have an effective range of 50 kilometers, so two or three times the one currently allowed by the Presto used in Afghanistan. At the rear of the pod, the low altitude sensor allows shot from horizon to horizon only 30m from the soil and at very high speeds (1000 km / h) by using a prism tower rotating at 12000 t/mn. A computer processing of the image (the "morphism") allows further to "expand" the image on the horizon to bring out details and gain further information.[...]

Computing power

Working in "punctual" mode, "area coverage" mode or "itinerary" mode, the pod runs automatically and continuously knows its precise position in space, which allows it to roll and pitch the pointing optics. It uses this information provided by its own gyro system correlated with those provided by the SNA of the aircraft. The shooting images are realized automatically copied from a numerical ground model, geographically referenced and assembled to form a panorama before being stored in the pod on a hard drive. One indicates in Mont-de-Marsan that the operating system for the pod alone has as many lines of code as the Rafale! The definition of images are then combined with the accumulation of views and a cross-checking can be done to provide exceptional resolution. In other words, the operator in its station can zoom within a landscape created by assembling multiple views to achieve a level of detail impossible to obtain with a single photo.[...].
Three reception towers have been ordered
 
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