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Subject: Rafale Thread
Softwar    3/9/2009 9:47:25 AM
Started with hope that BW will limit his comments here instead of in every other Fighter thread. I'll start off with: 1 - no export sales 2 - no laser designator 3 - no AESA 4 - overpriced 4th gen fighter
 
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Bluewings12       4/15/2009 11:40:29 AM
I know Herald , I keep repeating the basics and I 'll do it to no end , or until everybody more or less agree with the facts ...
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    You still haven'\figured o0ut how an IRST really works.   4/15/2009 12:26:08 PM
Or the difference between hot versus cold IR imaging.
 
Until you admit that you don't know what you are talking about , and instead adopt a student's perspective and learn; nobody and I mean nobody, should consider that you have to say as being based on fact.
 
That is not an opinion, its fact. Its based on the technical nonsense I read that you keep posting and your own incompetent explanation of same..
 
Herald
 
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Bluewings12       4/15/2009 1:32:14 PM
Pfff ...
""Or the difference between hot versus cold IR imaging.""
 
I answered that YEARS ago and it was on a Tank thread ....
 
""adopt a student's perspective""
 
I can perfectly do that when I see someone who knows more than I do . This is the why I learned Martial arts , Soccer , kill a man at 400m , make a woman have an orgasm , drive a 40tons truck and most importantly speak my mind .
You come a dollar short . My life experience is my CV and I am proud of it .
You should just acknowledge the facts I provide and discuss about something more relevant Herald .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       4/15/2009 1:48:05 PM
cwDeici , you look like a Procurer who hasn 't got a shadow of a proof . You loose your time in useless bla-bla and you do not bring anything worth to have a look at .
(Furthermore , I truly wander how you can look down on the latest Rafale display ...)
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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Herald12345    BW   4/15/2009 2:06:50 PM
We know for certain that you know nothing now about tanks, either.

That's okay, though. as long as I  KNOW and can prove that you know nothing that you claim to know: that is all that is required of me under the rules.
 
Still think a bore droop sensor is a twenty millimeter cannon or do you want to relive your moment of Leclerc glory?.

I don't mind if you don't.

Herald
 
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Phaid       4/15/2009 2:36:59 PM
I had to go back and re-read these last few posts a couple of times, because I couldn't believe Bluewings was actually proposing that the OSF's ranging laser was also being used as an IR missile jammer.
 
BW, you keep begging the question of why no fighter has "this capability".  The answer is pretty simple: the only IR jammers in use are designed specifically to counter common MANPADS threats.  They are designed to automatically detect and defeat MANPADS while the aircraft is landing or taking off, instances when the crew is least likely to be able to react to a missile and where flares are less likely to be effective.  On a large cargo aircraft, or on a tactical helicopter that lands in hot LZs this is worthwhile.  On a fighter jet, devoting that much space and weight to counter such a specific threat in such specific situations makes no sense.
 
And it is, in fact, a very specific threat.  In order for a laser to have any effect on anything more advanced than a simple spin-scanning IR sensor (i.e. what MANPADS use) it has to know the modulating frequency and possibly the carrier frequency required to fool the sensor into misjudging the direction to the target.  This requires very specific knowledge of the seeker being jammed, which is not possible to determine dynamically since unlike RF AAMs, IR seekers do not emit anything.
 
So, no, the Rafale's OSF cannot do this; even if it were capable of detecting and tracking an IR missile fast enough to do anything about it, the laser would have no effect.   Which is why the Rafale uses the same IR countermeasures that every other fighter uses: flares with a spectral emission tailored to match the typical temperatures of the aircraft.
 
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gf0012-aust       4/15/2009 3:51:32 PM

Pfff ...

""Or the difference between hot versus cold IR imaging.""

I answered that YEARS ago and it was on a Tank thread ....
pfff indeed.

you didn't understand the concept and technology then and obviously still don't.

it has nothing to do with technology sitting on an MBT 

the issue is not that you don't know - the issue is now that you pretend that you do and have tried numerous times to equate other irrelevant capabilities into an aviation context.

 
 
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mabie       4/16/2009 8:47:35 AM

It appears the Rafale has been eliminated from further considerationin the Indian fighter bid.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123988139175724889.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 
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Phaid       4/16/2009 10:57:12 AM
Yup.  According to this story, "sources indicated that the high cost of the aircraft was one of the factors."  Like I said in the other thread, I suspect this is related to the development cost.  France hasn't funded the development of the uprated M88 or the AESA, and if the MMRCA requirement included a HMS (all the other contenders offer one) that isn't funded either.  All of Dassault's offers to sell post-F3 configuration Rafales require the customer to pay for the development of post-F3 features, so it's likely that the Indians simply balked at that -- especially when all of the other contenders don't come with that additional price tag.
 
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Bluewings12       4/21/2009 8:08:43 PM
Phaid and gf , you should re-read what I said , then check the links I have provided since I am on SP , then try to read in between the lines with an open mind to get a better understanding . Dassault and its partners will certainly not expose and explain the real capabilities of the Rafale in public documentations , no one does .
Use your knowledge and imagination , try to draw a new picture with the available datas then extrapolate to what the aircraft maker could hide . You 'll find yourselves in the land I walk since 1999 .
 
Cheers .
 
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