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Subject: The Rafale's First Red Flag
Phaid    9/3/2008 5:22:21 PM
This is my translation of a new article from TTU Online: hxxp://www.ttu.fr/francais/Articles/rafaleredflag.html The Rafale's First Red Flag For the armée de l'air, two years after its official entry into service at Saint Dizier, the summer of 2008 was the first opportunity to fully test the Rafale in the context of a large-scale war gaming exercise in the Nevada desert, which came at the conclusion of a long journey journey across the American continent following a crossing of the Atlantic via the Azores. Planned for a year and a half, the goal of Red Flag is to prepare the French air forces for tactical interoperability. The armée de l'air has taken part in Red Flag on a regular basis since 1981, and nearly all of its combat aircraft types have participated. This time, it was the Rafale's turn, as a prelude to the participation of the Mirage F1CT/CR this fall in Green Flag -- a CAS exercise smaller in scale than Red Flag but which prepares forces for missions currently being undertaken in Afghanistan. And so, from the 7th to the 22nd August, a detachment of four Rafales from the fighter squadron 1/7 "Provence", based in Saint-Dizier, accompanied by a C-135FR tanker, spent ten days taking part in the fourth Red Flag of 2008, certainly the most demanding -- the closest thing to real war, they say -- for a Western pilot. The detachment of 85 personnel, under the command of colonel Philippe Poireault, the team's leader, and of the lieutenant colonel Fabrice Grandclaudon, commander of the 1/7, consisted in all of fourteen pilotes, six navigators, an intelligence officer, and 39 mechanics. The detachment consisted of two teams; one for missions during the day and one for missions at night. The roster was rounded out by air commandos responsible for the security of the aircraft. Taking place immediately following a 10-day base exchange at Luke Air Force Base with F-16s and personnel of the USAF's 309th TFS, the goal of the Rafale's first Red Flag was to compare the Rafale, which the squadron has been flying for two years, with combat aircraft of the same generation (called the 4th generation): F-15Es of the USAFE, F-15Ks of the RoKAF, F-15 and F-16 Aggressors, and Su-30MKIs of the IAF. It should be noted that half of the French participants had participated in the Afghan theater in recent months. The four Rafale from the 1/7 (numbers 317, 320, 321, and 325) were all two-seaters, of the F2+ standard (and thus very recent), with a total "swing role" capability and whose simulated armament was composed of Mica IR/EM AAMs and rocket-propelled inertially guided AASM/GPS weapons. The missions were supported by the SLPRM (the SAGEM local mission planning and replay system, a mission-planning computer system). During the ten days of Red Flag, the Rafale Bs undertook a total of four sorties per day, each averaging two hours (1 day strike and 1 night strike), as part of a Blue Air strike package consisting in general of fifty to sixty aircraft. This took place in outside temperatures above 45°C, nearly identical to conditions in Kandahar, Afghanistan. These temperatures were in fact more taxing on the crews and maintainers than on the aircraft; the M88's power reserve at takeoff assuring comfortable levels of thrust at the beginnings of the missions. The aircraft were normally equipped with three large supersonic external tanks of 1200 liters to mimic a heavy war load. The primary preoccupation of the armée de l'air in coming to Nellis AFB with the Rafale was first to verify the proper integration of the aircraft and its systems in a dense and complex environment of allied aircraft, notably with the participation of EA-6B electronic warfare aircraft and F-16CJs performing SEAD. General Jean-Pierre Martin, commander of the combat air forces, who even participated in one of the last Rafale B missions over the Nellis range (which is as large as the territory of Switzerland!) during the August Red Flag, commented: "After a year and a half of preparation, the system is in operational service and has been utilised in operatiosn which demonstrates that the capabilities of the aircraft are at the desired level. The Rafale behaved itself very well and fulfilled its part of the missions, and even did so easily thanks to the combination of its sensors and its networking systems (link 16). We can say that, for the first time, in contrast to previous exercises involving Jaguars or Mirage F1s or 2000, the French flew at Red Flag on an aircraft of comparable generation which had nothing to envy those of its American, Korean, and Indian comrades." Also taking into account the mission profiles undertaken in a theater saturated with surface-to-air and air-to-air threats, the Rafale also very well demonstr5ated its capacity to penetrate enemy air defenses thanks to its very capable weapon system to which the new AASM bomb is not a stranger. In fact, if the different participants were not particula
 
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Softwar       9/12/2008 3:46:13 PM

Softwar :


""It shows your true colors.""

 

My true color is this one : the One who will strike first will be my enemy . And I don 't care if it 's China or the USA . 

The Leader who will launch the Nuclear Fire first will be the enemy
 



So are you qualifying how America will burn and the French no first use policy now? 
You posted what you posted.  You can either go with it or just claim you were having a fit at the time and did not know what you wrote.  You posted that America would burn, Europe (France) would sit by and win the world by default.  You wished hell fire and damnation upon my country without concern nor consideration.  That is not the post of a friend - it is something I would expect from Kim Jong Il or an Ayatollah.
 
 
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Softwar    Enough Said....   9/12/2008 4:50:10 PM
BW wrote:
"One day will come when the Great China will wake up and declare a total War on the United States . The only winner will be Europe and possibly India if the Indians stay quiet . We ~Europeans~ have been there for 3000 years and we 'll last even longer , no worries . And its not the F-22 Raptor who 's going to save you from the Chinese nuclear fire ."

BW is so very wrong in this little gem.  In light of the fact this thread is about Rafale coming to the USA to exercise jointly with US and India during Red Flag - and the fact that Rafales are flying off a US carrier side by side with US Navy Hornets - and the fact that the Rafale did its pre-carrier trials here in the US (New Jersey) because France did not have an adequate facililty - I should note that France and the US are allies under NATO. 
 
BW's self-delaration of watching America get fried by "nuclear fire" is just that - the point of view of a single individual and does not represent the true alliance shared by Paris and Washington.
 
We currently share combat in Afghanistan and have shared the losses as well.  NATO aircraft patrolled American skies after 9/11.  We don't have to agree on everything - that is what democracy is all about - but we do share a common goal of self defense.  Thus, an attack as outlined by BW above would bring a NATO response.
 
NATO LINK

The North Atlantic Treaty Washington D.C. - 4 April 1949
 
Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

 

 
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Bluewings12       9/12/2008 6:30:06 PM
Just a quick word before to rest (I work 2moro) .
 
France thinks that the use of our nuclear weapons goes before and well beyond the 5th article of the NATO treaty .
As I said before , we use (or not) our nuclear fire as we see fit regardless of the alliances . Our nuclear fire is our life insurance and it is our business .
 
More 2moro .
 
Cheers .

 
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Phaid       9/12/2008 6:48:47 PM
Show me where are the ECM AESA antenas  on the SH ...
 
OK.  Right here:
 
http://www.tmworld.com/articles/images/TMW/20080401/TMW08_04F1jet_400px.jpg" width="400" height="201" />
 
Here's part of an article by David Fulghum from AW&ST Feb. 25, 2007, about the then-upcoming Block II Super Hornet:
 
Once the AESA radar's operational evaluation is officially ended, the only other system needing op eval will be the ALE-55 fiber-optic towed decoy. Other systems are completed and in full-rate production, including the ALQ-214 jammer, ALE-47 chaff/flare dispenser and the advanced crew station in the cockpit's decoupled back seat. The weapon systems officer has the mission of maintaining situational awareness in the battlespace with user-friendly controls for the aircraft's advanced displays and sensors. The next step for the Super Hornet program is to integrate those systems and make the collected sensor information available to those in the battlespace through a common operational tactical picture.

"For example, our ALR-67(v)3 radar warning receiver is going to be delivered with a digitally cued receiver," Gaddis says. "We'll be able to pick up some different waveforms that we've not been able to capture before." Industry specialists say that means finding combinations of frequencies and pulse structures that allow identification of specific radar and aircraft threats.

"More importantly, we're going to marry the digitally cued receiver to single-ship geolocation algorithms [for precision location] and specific emitter ID algorithms with the AESA radar," says Gaddis. Also, the radar warning receiver and ALQ-214 jammers will be integrated to produce "high-gain electronic attack and high-gain electronic surveillance measures," he adds. "We would use them as a survivability upgrade against advanced air-to-air and a certain spectrum of the surface-to-air threat.

"We're going to create a high-speed data bus so that [electronic attack] techniques generated by the ALQ-214 will be sent through the AESA radar with much more power and effect," Gaddis says. "Rather than wait for a threat to develop some electronic countermeasure, we plan to attack him [at long range] through the radar."
 
At this point, the Block II standard is in squadron service in the fleet, complete with all of those systems.  And unlike little wing-root antenna systems with a few modules, APG-79 is a nice big 1100-element system with the power and cooling to act as a true, long-range, offensive jammer.  Couple that with a DRFM techniques generator like the ALQ-214, and you have a very powerful and capable jamming system that is second only to dedicated jamming aircraft like the Prowler and Growler.
 
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warpig       9/12/2008 9:29:32 PM
...wow...
 
just... wow.
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       9/13/2008 11:54:21 AM
Phaid :
""Feel free to support that assertion by showing how the Spectra's ECM system on Rafale is any more effective than the Super Hornet's IDECM suite""
 
Because it has EASA antennas able to use a pencil beam for stealth jamming (no broadcasting) , then I also think that the system in itself is better with also a better defensive software (Logiciel de Defense) . Then it also uses real time holographic processing . None of it is present on the SH defensive suite .
 
Which brings me to your post about the APG-79 . It is certainly a major step toward integrated countermesures used in the X-Band through an AESA dish . If we restrict the discussion to A2A warfare , it is probably the "la crème de la crème" for jamming other Fighters . Unfortunatly , it only works within the X-Band radar .
You still need something else to jam the ground radars and multiple SAMs which are not usuing the X-Band .
A separate internal system able to precisely jam in all radar Bands is the best for the task , if that system is coupled to the one you 're talking about , it makes the Aircraft a real pain in the a** to deal with .
As it stands , the PESA RBE2 on the Rafale can 't do that because it is only a Passive ESA (no jamming possible) , but we do have SPECTRA . When the RBE2 AESA will be fielded , we 'll have both capabilities .
 
""Couple that with a DRFM techniques generator like the ALQ-214, and you have a very powerful and capable jamming system that is second only to dedicated jamming aircraft like the Prowler and Growler.""
 
You 're making the confusion in between A2A and A2G . (see what I said above about radar Bands)
 
Cheers . 

 
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Bluewings12       9/13/2008 3:45:32 PM
Don 't  think that I 'm looking down on what the USA (as well as others) are working on , I understand clearly that an AESA radar is the best jammer there is against another Fighter also using a X-Band radar . While the AESA is scanning around , it can also build a SAR picture of the ground , follow a couple of air targets while jamming the most threatening incoming enemy fighter . It can do all of this while quickly undergoing frequency jumps to avoid detection and/or identification .
The USA field very powerfull AESA dishes and the Americans Tech on ECMs put them well ahead of what the Russians or Chineses can oppose . 
Bravo !
 
The Rafale will also have that capability soon but with a smaller AESA dish and probably less available power . I just hope that our Defense Softwares will make up for it .
 
Cheers .
 

 
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Bluewings12       9/13/2008 7:23:36 PM
Just to be sure , I had to check what the ALQ-214 jammer can do .
It is pretty impressive as a towed decoy but it has no special abilities ~as I said~ :
 
h*ttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/budget/fy2001/dot-e/navy/01idecm.html
 
I do like the :
""The ALQ-214 (V)2 and FOTD were tested at two HITL facilities Radio Frequency Simulator System (RFSS) and the Air Force Electronic Warfare Evaluation Simulator (AFEWES) against the missile seekers of four threats. Preliminary results from the tests indicate excellent performance of the FOTD versus these four systems. The performance was in line with expectations, indicating the system is functioning against each of these threats as intended.""

This is excellent but what are the four systems they 're talking about ? They sure talk about EM missiles , but which ones ?

The Blk III seems to be adequate against some EM threats (while broadcasting its jamming in all directions : Hello , I 'm there) ... which brings me to think how does it fare against what you Americans posters often like to call upon  : Home on Jam ? Of course , you 're going to tell me that it doesn 't matter if the missile splash the towed decoy because it it has homed on jam and rightly so , but you have lost a decoy anyway . From the article , you can only take few onboard but is it already good , I admit .
 
The Typhoon is also using a pretty good towed decoy but we don 't like the idea , here in France .
It takes up room , it is broadcasting and can be "heard" Nautic miles away and because we like to fly very low , we don 't like to have anything hanging . We much prefer a good internal and precise ECM suite .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 

 
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Bluewings12       9/13/2008 7:52:04 PM
You see Gents , to go back on the thread there are some very good reasons why the Rafale did well at Red Flag .
Stop your delirium tremens , the Rafale is the best 4.5 generation aircraft there is . 
And it hasn 't an AESA radar or a LGB pod yet ...
 
Cheers .

 
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gf0012-aust       9/13/2008 10:05:41 PM


Stop your delirium tremens , the Rafale is the best 4.5 generation aircraft there is . 

And it hasn 't an AESA radar or a LGB pod yet ...
 
 
 
funnily enough the RAAF guys at Red Flag came away somewhat indifferent to that (and the guys who were on the Tender eval and saw the submitted Rafale data as well as all the others weren't convinced either).
 
All the fan boy comments that get generated about Red Flag and Cope "xx" always show that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about DACT.  For anyone to talk about "winners" or "beating" other aircraft indicates that they are completely clueless as to what Red Flag and it's sister events seek to achieve.
 
Rafale maybe the best for France, but it certainly does not generate the same enthusiam anywhere else.
 
- it's an orphan
- it's not being sold even with significant price reductions - even to third world airforces
- it's not getting picked up even with other package attractions
- it's not generated any interest from sophisticated airforces (1st or 2nd tier)
- it had to deliver ord in afghanistan with assistance 
- it can't self designate (see afghanistan)

 
you continue to talk about sig management when the basic airframe shows a lack of sophisticated finish against contemp aircraft.
 
again, look at the sig management panel finish on Rafale (and the saw tooth panels prev displayed show an appalling fit and finish and in themselves are sig transmitters - they sit prouder than normal panel fixtures so cause an immediate reflection).  Compare that panel finish to a Super Hornet .  The Gripen is a "cleaner" platform.
 
and again, none of the EW points you have  previously spoken about will give meaningful coverage.  their arc is too narrow and their placement and size makes the claimed capability extremely unlikely.  You need  decent onboard power to manage reasonable EW capability.
 
again, look at onboard power issues.  
 
 you can't turn a sows ear into a silk purse. 
 
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