Ooops Su-30 and not the mythological Su-35.

Well, it gave the warload as being 13,000 pounds and the fuel load as being 15,000 pounds. I halved the fuel load to give me 7,500 pounds. I also reduced warload to 10,000 pounds. This brought the weight to 40,000 pounds. The total thrust of F-135 might be a bit over 40,000 pounds, but then so is the likely weight. And I'd much rather be in the Flanker with my torches lit when my fuel status is 50% than in the F-35. Keeping weight at an anemic 40,000 pounds, the F-135 would need to pump out a bit over 45,000 pounds of thrust to equal the MKI's T/W ratio. I haven't really read anything to suggest that it is capable of doing that. Drag-wise, it yes, the Flanker loses out, but this configuration gave only 4 shortburn R-27s. R-73s are quite low drag affairs, so the handicap isn't as great as you might think. R-77s are even less draggy than R-27s, though they are rare.

Fuel is a lot more actually. between 13000lbs and 19000lbs depending on which F-35. Also, what a2a configuration requires a 10,000lbs payload?

Well, perhaps 10,000 lbs is excessive, but then half of 19,000lbs is 9,900lbs instead of 7,500lbs. Assuming AMRAAMs are traded for JDAMs, perhaps a 5000lb load is more realistic? That would still leave the weight in the order of 40,000lb with 50% fuel. Again, Flanker comes out on top.

Bleh, that's supposed to read "half of 19,000lbs is 9,500lbs".

See now you are cherry picking your arguement. JDAMs could be SDB or more AMRAAMs! You could have a F-35 with well under 40000lbs weight with an engine thats demonstrated over 43000lbs of thrust! My point is that BS(Brochure Statistics) often have little to do with the real would. Suppose a F-35 has an empty weigh of approx 25000 + 8 SDB@ 2000 + 2 AMRAAM ~700 with 9500lbs of fuel = ~ 38000lbs. OR what about just 4 AMRAAM. Or 2 AMRAAM and 2 AIM-9. There are a lot of variables so you cant say the Flanker wins. Especially after drag is considered.

Well, cherry picking or not, I work with the figures I have. If it's an air to air scenario, it's a fair assumption you'd be trading the JDAMs for AMRAAMs. I reckon the F-35 could fit quite a few in those bays, perhaps giving a total of six and two winders or eight. With ammunition, 5000 pounds sounds like a good estimate. 25,500+9,500+5000=40,000 pounds. Now, the F-35 could be going in there with only two AMRAAMs and two winders, but then again if you want to play like that perhaps the Flanker would only be carrying two R-77s and four R-73s. I don't think that's a realistic scenario, though. If the F-35 is restricted to 38,000lbs and the F-135 indeed generates 43,000lbs, then it would be breaking even with the Flanker, but I think 40,000lbs is a better estimate.

25,500+9,500+5000=40,000 pounds. Now, the F-35 could be going in there with only two AMRAAMs and two winders, but then again if you want to play like that perhaps the Flanker would only be carrying two R-77s and four R-73s. I don't think that's a realistic scenario, though. Its quite realistic. Aircraft almost never fly around fully loaded except for press photo's. Just google your jet of choice on an operational combat mission and see for yourself. If the F-35 is restricted to 38,000lbs and the F-135 indeed generates 43,000lbs, then it would be breaking even with the Flanker, but I think 40,000lbs is a better estimate. Well 43,000lbs is demonstrated. Actually the F135/F136 have demonstrated more than that. Again, you cant shape the data to fit the arguement... http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft/FRHeft05/FRH0506/FR0506d.htm ...and 43,000lbs isnt even the limit for this engine.

Ok, obviously aircraft flying at maximum load is none too likely in a combat zone, but two AMRAAMs isn't very inspiring when it comes to combat persistence. A Flanker could ditch a lot of weight and still come out with a better load-out for the same T/W ratio. By the time F-135 goes beyond 43,000lbs in service, I think it's reasonable to assume that the full-spec AL-31FM will be around, giving ~31,000lbs rather than the 29,400lbs. Seeing as the Indians still have some original AL-31Fs and FUs lying around that ought to need replacement in a few years time, it's a fair bet that you'll see MKIs with FMs. You still get a Flanker with a T/W ratio superiority over an F-35. Also, DA, I meant 40,000lbs being a better estimate of the F-35's weight, not F-135. I don't dispute the 43,000lbs of thrust. A 40,000lb F-35 will still only have 1.07 compared to 1.13 for the Flanker with a depleted internal auxiliary tank and ten AAMs. If you want to reduce the carriage to, say, four R-73s and two R-77s, the T/W ratio can go up and the MKI/MKM will still have a useful air defence load.

There are rumblings that the F-35A, B, and C will be superior than the legacy aircraft they are replacing in terms of agility and overall effectiveness in the WVR realm. Mainly, this comes from discussions on the F-16.net boards, but it is interesting nonetheless. The F-35 is always considered this stick in the mud AtG aircraft. Primarily in the USAF. However, this type of talk also has a history to it. Just like the F-16s capabilities in AtA (BVR or otherwise) were understated during its service entry, so has the F-35's. In the USAF, the reasoning is that, if Congress 100+ members (with IQs of roughly 1 or 2) figure out that the F-35 can dominate in BVR and WVR AND AtG work, then the case for the F-22A diminishes even greater. In Europe, many of our allies who will operate both the F-35 and Tiffy feel the same way. But in actuality, they can scrap the Tiffy, and keep the F-35 and do all the missions with the same degree of capability. So basically, the Typhoon, in many cases is retained due to politics of the European Union. The F-22A is also retained due to the politics of kicking ass, even though there are no asses to be kicked. F-35 BVR, a neat trick. Its funny, the F-35 can be a very capable BVR platform. Primarily, one can produce an insertable dual AIM-120D ejector rack in each of the main bays of the F-35. Then mount AIM-9Xs on the door-hinge launcher. And BAM-O! Instant F-22-mini! 4 BVR missiles, 2 WVR missiles. All internalized, all ready to rock. A and C model only. And trust me, it can, and will be done.