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Subject: HOW WILL THE US NAVY DEFEAT THE SUNBURN MISSILES??
LJ813    7/6/2005 9:20:57 AM
read this guys.. http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3905551929fb.htm enjoy!!
 
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Kozmik Imperial    RE:HOW WILL THE US NAVY DEFEAT THE SUNBURN MISSILES??   7/9/2005 11:12:41 PM
its funny, the inteligence in this forum fluctuates. u got your strategists, engineers, enthusiasts and so forth but that doesn't matter in a heated discussion. whats my point? simple, never underestimate your enemy and never be overly confident. theres nothin that compares to the complexity of the Aegis but when was it truly tested against a sea skimmer, i mean they had dummy drones bought indirectly from russia, but they never tested the system against saturated attacks. and then theres china, they're building and building but their tech is not there yet, so theyy must either not care about gettin beaten or must have a plan A and B in the event of U.S intervention. either way, its gonna be a mess for both sides (U.S will probably still win somehow, but with some mnew lessons learned)
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:HOW WILL THE US NAVY DEFEAT THE SUNBURN MISSILES??   7/9/2005 11:34:48 PM
" never underestimate your enemy and never be overly confident. " whats at issue here is not capability, but responses evolving from suspect and misrepresented datasets. from my perspective, I don't mind articles like the one promoted by the loonies and moonbats as it makes them feel good. I don't feel compeled to correct the errors or motivated to feed a discussion which is not in "our" interest. some I do, some i don't and some are better left as is.
 
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EW3    RE:HOW WILL THE US NAVY DEFEAT THE SUNBURN MISSILES??   7/9/2005 11:43:03 PM
GF - I normally laugh off fools, but for some reason the people that are building up China is a hot button for me. They are so full of bovine droppings and yet they are getting national attention here. It's troubling that they may get us to take our eye of the ball and waste defense money on stuff that is really not useful. The fact they are doing it for profit, makes it even worse.
 
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Nichevo    One word - Iran   12/14/2006 10:10:14 PM
One thing all these posts presume is extreme range.  "As long as we don't get too close..."  Well, ISTM that conditions in the ol' Strait of Hormuz are less promising from our point of view.  We will have much shorter reaction times against Sunburn and Yakhont; and while our own fleets may be safe enough, it may be much harder to protect tankers.

Oh, I'm all Hooray for our side but on the subject of not being overconfident, does the Persian Gulf scenario change anyone's estimates? 

Of course I suppose they have fewer missiles than China.  Don't know how many.    But SCUD hunting didn;t go so great.  Will we do better hunting Sunburn launch sites?  Plus their Exocets...

Opinions welcome.  Just trying to have a chat on another board - don't want to go off half-c0cked.

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/14/2006 10:30:27 PM
Even if the Sunburn can be stopped by Aegis, the PLAN will be counting on US overreliance on its existing systems as a viable defense.  Don't think that the Sunburn might be "altered" specifically to counter Aegis, the PLA modernization program seems to be moving towards being highly specialized towards specific foes...the chinese do believe in intense, long term preparation and practice, especially when the outside world is watching.

We have indeed bought Russian anti-ship missiles to test our ship defenses and in return we give the Russians ideas on how to improve their missiles.

Can't have enough China-phobia, would prefer panda hugginig?

 
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EW3       12/14/2006 10:46:14 PM
Nanny - There is nothing special about the Sunburn.  In fact it has a lot of negative qualities and it would not
be my biggest concern in a war zone, except perhaps in a littoral environment.  And even there, I would have
more pressing concerns.   
 
Can you provide a link to how we have helped the Russians improve their missiles?? 
 
 
Even if the Sunburn can be stopped by Aegis, the PLAN will be counting on US overreliance on its existing systems as a viable defense.  Don't think that the Sunburn might be "altered" specifically to counter Aegis, the PLA modernization program seems to be moving towards being highly specialized towards specific foes...the chinese do believe in intense, long term preparation and practice, especially when the outside world is watching.

We have indeed bought Russian anti-ship missiles to test our ship defenses and in return we give the Russians ideas on how to improve their missiles.

Can't have enough China-phobia, would prefer panda hugginig?



 
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DarthAmerica    Nichevo Reply   12/15/2006 12:58:48 AM

One thing all these posts presume is extreme range.  "As long as we don't get too close..."  Well, ISTM that conditions in the ol' Strait of Hormuz are less promising from our point of view.  We will have much shorter reaction times against Sunburn and Yakhont; and while our own fleets may be safe enough, it may be much harder to protect tankers.

Oh, I'm all Hooray for our side but on the subject of not being overconfident, does the Persian Gulf scenario change anyone's estimates? 

Of course I suppose they have fewer missiles than China.  Don't know how many.    But SCUD hunting didn;t go so great.  Will we do better hunting Sunburn launch sites?  Plus their Exocets...

Opinions welcome.  Just trying to have a chat on another board - don't want to go off half-c0cked.
Nichevo,

Things are quite a bit different from the "old" SCUD hunting days. ISR is much more persistent and accurate as are the shooters. This is all in addition to much more formidable missile defenses. Recent events suggest that there will be the occasional "leaker" or a lucky shot. But as a whole the means certainly exist today to greatly reduce the effectiveness of ballistic and cruise missiles.

As far as the Strait of Hormuz goes. I don't see it as a negative for us. Actually, it helps by greatly reducing the area needing to be searched and cleansed of these threats. If you are an Iranian missile crew member operating in that area its very likely that your life span would be extremely short. Especially if such missile systems are massed in order to provide the kind of firepower necessary to saturate a modern defense. Short of that mass, what we are left with is a sort of "missile guerrilla warfare" where hidden or disguised crews take low percentage opportunity shots at lightly defended targets. A complicating factor would be multiple axis coordinated attacks. However, you have to look at the big picture. Would the state of Iranian communications be intact or secure in a shooting war? Consider all the various forms of EW and anti-C4ISR strikes the Iranians would have to face and overcome to maximize the effectiveness of their attacks. About the only thing they have going for them is almost guaranteed inaccurate reporting of any successes they do manage by the media due to the dramatic nature of missile strikes on surface ships.


Finally with regard to cruise missile defense. Consider the technology that could be brought to bear if the USA is involved. If there are AESA equipped F/A-18E/F, F-22's or F-15C's in the region that would give a huge boost to the air battle vs cruise missiles.

DA
 
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gf0012-aust       12/15/2006 2:10:06 AM
 
I'm going to be lazy and post my response from another forum...
 
"16 missiles? even if they were all fired at once they are well within the detection range of an Appache Longbow - let alone an Aegis System. As a small exercise, add up all the available counter responses available in a typical       CVN and support fleet. 1 against nn"                                                                                                                        .

The USN have been training against Mach 3 to Mach 6 ASM/ASuM's since the 1960's. The battlespace response      envelope has improved dramatically - and yet, one discrete system without the benefit of multiple attack                capability, without the benefit of mutiple defeat systems is a new "you beaut" threat?

Somehow, I have a doubt."
 
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Apokalypse       12/15/2006 5:02:47 AM
The french/italien aster 15/30 did defeat the Exocet with an direct hit  (!)
 
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displacedjim       12/16/2006 12:02:54 AM

One thing all these posts presume is extreme range.  "As long as we don't get too close..."  Well, ISTM that conditions in the ol' Strait of Hormuz are less promising from our point of view.  We will have much shorter reaction times against Sunburn and Yakhont; and while our own fleets may be safe enough, it may be much harder to protect tankers.

Oh, I'm all Hooray for our side but on the subject of not being overconfident, does the Persian Gulf scenario change anyone's estimates? 

Of course I suppose they have fewer missiles than China.  Don't know how many.    But SCUD hunting didn;t go so great.  Will we do better hunting Sunburn launch sites?  Plus their Exocets...

Opinions welcome.  Just trying to have a chat on another board - don't want to go off half-c0cked.



What SUNBURNs/YAKHONTs?!?!
 
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