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Subject: Rafale has highest payload and MTOW to empty weight ratio of among any modern fighter
Adamantine    1/15/2005 2:05:03 AM
Rafale has excellent payload for its small size. Officially Rafale C can carry a incredible 20900 pounds of payload despite the fact that it is slightly smaller than Typhoon which can carry only 16500 pounds. The payload of Rafale C is also officially MORE than F-18EF ( F-18EF is 42% larger than rafale C, but F-18ef carries only 17700 pound officially). And this is not all. When Rafale get its uprated M88-3 engine and when the new 3000 liter (792.6gals) center line external fuel tank is being qualified for use, rafale external payload weight will further increase to almost 23000 pound !!! Thats almost the same as the 24000 pounds achieve by the 50-65% larger F-15E. Rafale C MTOW will soon be increase to 60,000 pounds. Rafale C is about 20680 pound when empty. Its MTOW to empty weight ratio is 2.9 times !! F-15E MTOW to empty ratio is 2.56 or less. F-15E probably rank second. No other airplane is close or even close. eurofighter Typhoon MTWO to empty weight is only 2.14 ! B-2 bomber may have highere MTOW to empty weight ratio. But B-2 is a subsonic load carrying bomber. For fighter plane comparison Rafale C MTOW to empty weight ratio is HIGHEST among all supersonic fighre aircraft.
 
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Adamantine    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 6:36:03 PM
"Whats the range of the Rafale, 1150 miles? F-18E has more. APG-79 is superior to the Rafales radar. AESA IOC 2005, now. RCS is not better. The number is classified. The F-22 and SU-30MKI will both out manuver a Rafale. Both in service now. " I am talking about the MTOW to empty weight ratio in this thread. I am NOT talking about whicg aircraft has better radar or range. SU-30mki, F-22A, F-18EF and F-35 ARE ALL much heavier than Rafale. Its natural for them to be better. They should. !! F-18ef is 42% bigger than Rafale, if its range is still smaller, you can throw F-18ef into scarp yard. Its only natural that F-18ef has more fuel and fuel fraction, it is 42-43% bigger :) Bigger aircaft also has bigger AESA. Its natural F-22 would have better radar. Lets just talk about MTOW to empty weight ratio in this thread. This thread is not about whohc fighter is better :)
 
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Bluewings    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 6:44:12 PM
F/A-18E max Range : 3054 km . Rafale max range : 3125 km . Not much more I admit , but you are wrong again ;-) Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 6:46:05 PM
Adam : " F-18ef is 42% bigger than Rafale, if its range is still smaller, you can throw F-18ef into scarp yard." Please do lolol !!! ;-) Cheers .
 
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french stratege    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 6:53:37 PM
can we mention that Rafale can use also conformal tanks? PS: Rafale radar is not ASEA for current plane but ASEA radar is tested today.Diameter of antenna are similar for rafale and F18E. ANd RCS of rafale is much smaller than F18E if F18E has a 0,5 or 1 sqm frontal RCS as some US document mentioned it.
 
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Bluewings    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 7:13:24 PM
Ok , back to topic now ... Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    Range...   1/16/2005 7:26:18 PM
Im talking Combat Range. Yours is 1150. Mine is 1252. Not much more, but more. Plus F/A-18F a tanker too! So we are both right.
 
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T800m101    RE:I am not taking away from the French Rafale design...but   1/16/2005 10:08:20 PM
"Rafale has lower RCS than F-18E , better radar and better range" Wrong on the RCS, the Super Hornet has a smaller RCS than both the Typhoon and the Rafale. RCS: 1. Super Hornet 2. Rafale 3. Typhoon But fully loaded it doesn't matter, since none of the aircraft are stealthy, so all this RCS crap goes out the window.. As of right now the Rafale does have a better radar. But enter the AN/APG-79 AESA radar, this will be superior to the RBE2..
 
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Adamantine    APG-79 is superior   1/17/2005 2:16:48 AM
"Wrong on the RCS, the Super Hornet has a smaller RCS than both the Typhoon and the Rafale. RCS: 1. Super Hornet 2. Rafale 3. Typhoon But fully loaded it doesn't matter, since none of the aircraft are stealthy, so all this RCS crap goes out the window.. As of right now the Rafale does have a better radar. But enter the AN/APG-79 AESA radar, this will be superior to the RBE2." I AGREE. APG-79 is better and F-18EF has better range and transonic agility. But Rafale has moderately better maximum speed. Furthermore, once the 3000 liter drop tank for the centerline is used widely use and coupled to two low drag 1150 liter conformal tank, Rafale should have better range than F-18EF. BUT BUT, F-18Ef is still in the early stage of evolution. There is still room for lots of improvement. I believe if Navy is going to spend abit more money, it could equipped F-18EF with 2x792gals super drop tank on the innermost wing pylon 4 and pylon 8. Furthermore there is LOTS of empty space above the air intake. F-18Ef should be able to be fitted with 2 stealthy conformal fuel tanks above the air intake (just like typhoon and rafale). Each CFT can possibly hold 600 gals of fuel, enabling F-18EF to further increase its fuel by 8120 pounds !! F-18EF also as some 0.6 meter2 of empty space that is ROOM for growth. You can add more powerful internal ECM to it. In the LONG RUN, F-18EF would be a great plane, but in the middle term, once Rafale has its 3000 litre centreline tank coupled to 2 CFT, it would out range F-18ef.
 
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Adamantine    RCS   1/17/2005 2:19:51 AM
"can we mention that Rafale can use also conformal tanks? PS: Rafale radar is not ASEA for current plane but ASEA radar is tested today.Diameter of antenna are similar for rafale and F18E. ANd RCS of rafale is much smaller than F18E if F18E has a 0,5 or 1 sqm frontal RCS as some US document mentioned it." What is the RCS of Rafale, any reliable source ?? For the benefit of doubt, we can assume that F-18EF has a RCS of 0.5m2 (probably clean configuration)
 
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gixxxerking    RE:RCS   1/17/2005 2:48:16 AM
Super Hornet also has low RCS weapons pylons. At least thats the rumor. And there is a lot of built in growth potential.
 
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