Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Pakistan Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
counterstrike    10/28/2005 3:14:41 PM
Arnaud de Borchgrave interviews Hameed Gul, former chief of Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) UPI, Sept 26, 2001. RAWALPINDI, Pakistan, Sept. 26 (UPI) -- The retired Pakistani general who is closest to the Taliban and Osama bin Laden contends the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York City and Washington were the work of renegade U.S. Air Force elements working with the Israelis. Gen. Hameed Gul led Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Gul serves as an adviser to Pakistan's extremist religious political parties, which oppose their government's decision to support the United States in any action against Afghanistan's Taliban regime. Gul contends bin Laden had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, saying instead that they were the work of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service -- a version of events that has been endorsed by Islamic fundamentalist clerics and is widely accepted by Muslims throughout the Arab world. Here is the transcript of the exclusive interview Gul gave to Arnaud de Borchgrave, United Press International editor at large: de Borchgrave: So who did Black Sept. 11? Hamid Gul: Mossad and its accomplices. The U.S. spends billion a year on its 11 intelligence agencies. That's 0 billion in 10 years. Yet the Bush Administration says it was taken by surprise. I don't believe it. Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center ... CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves. de Borchgrave: So you're already convinced bin Laden didn't do it? Hamid Gul: I know bin Laden and his associates. I've been with them here, in Europe and the Middle East. They are graduates of the best universities and are highly intelligent with impressive degrees and speak impeccable English. These are people who have rediscovered fundamental Islamic values. Many come from the Gulf countries where ruling royal families have generated hatred by the way they flout divine law, wasting billions on gratifying their whims, jetting around in large private jets by themselves, and sailing the Mediterranean in big private boats for weeks on end. Osama's best recruits come from feudal areas that are U.S. protectorates and where millions of poor people are seeking human dignity. I have even visited a Christian convent school in Murree, 60 miles from here, where my 13-year-old daughter is studying. The young girls there have told me Osama is their hero. Osama's followers identify with Mujahideen freedom fighters wherever they are defending Islam and its values. de Borchgrave: So what makes you think Osama wasn't behind Sept. 11? Hamid Gul: From a cave inside a mountain or a peasant's hovel? Let's be serious. Osama inspires countless millions by standing up for Islam against American and Israeli imperialism. He doesn't have the means for such a sophisticated operation. de Borchgrave: Why Mossad? Hamid Gul: Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and four flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic controller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m. That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF, jets are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further questions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who could that have been? Will that also be hushed up in the investigation, like the Warren report after the Kennedy assassination? de Borchgrave: At this point, someone might be asking what you've been smoking. What is Israel's interest in such a monstrous plot, which, of course, no one believes except Islamist extremists who concocted this piece of disinformation in the first place, presumably to detract from the real culprits? Hamid Gul: Jews never agreed to Bush 41 (George H.W. Bush, the 41st president) or 43 (his son George W. Bush, the 43rd president). They made sure Bush senior didn't get a second term. His land-for-peace pressure in Palestine didn't suit Israel. They were also against the young Bush because he was considered too close to oil interests and the Gulf countries. Bush senior and Jim Baker had raised 0 million for Bush junior, much of it from Mideast sources or their American go-betweens. Bush 41 and Baker, as private citizens, had also facilitated the new strategic relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran. I have this f
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3   NEXT
counterstrike    RE: counterstrike   10/29/2005 1:35:02 PM
>>i think u need to study geogrphy first; and then study the world politics. Tell me who was fighting with them; atleast not Indians? lol<< Idiot did PAk have any personal problems with USSR like India has with pak. then why did pak fight in AFG.... what else so that US would Help them against INDIA....LOL so what do u call that?- for US it was abt saving there men and for u Idiots it was getting US support against india >>oppurtunists...Till 9-11, Indians did`nt even know how to spell "TERRORISM" ,now only trying yr best to compete Pakistan;;;<< amazing what makes u think that India could ever compete Pakistan in the Feild of terrorisim...LOL >>"Then what are u waiting for it has been 58 yrs Idiot!!" lol This idiocy is getting to yr blood..... << don't eat ur own words idiot what abt finishing of INDIA in TEN YRS??? india doesn't need to destroy Pakistan its a cancer and it will kill itself!! >>I dare any Indian to stand against Paki; why dont you try it so as u say you`r brave..... why you still hiding in the south India , enjoying your so called "CLASSICAL LANGUAGE",<< I think the Indian military is doing a pretty good job.... do u also want me to kick ur Paki asses...? >idiot be it minorities & majorities all of them are kicking paki asses.. It shows yr hippocracy on Indians' bravery, so desperate;; lol...<< that shows ur so weak to accept the truth. >>NEED to update yr self: it was declared by India already in 1947; but may be u still doesnt have a stomach to fight with Pakistan,.... ; if Hindus are scared .....,no problem--- send in yr poor minorities.<< shows u read ur paki history text book well!! but not the real history. It were the PAkis whio were there on KAsHmir first again calling wasn't them but the Mujaheedens...LOL u guys are so desperate!!! ANd once we officially declared the war the result----BANGLADESH and it seems u want more... >>Tell me anything where hindus have contributed anything to India except their Cow`products?<< ever heard of SIR C.V.RAMAN, RAMANUJAM, MAHATMA GANDHI, ARAYABATTA, DR.RADHAKRISHNAN, KALPANA CHAWLA(a US resident Indian though)...the list is endless, BUT I can't stop it without mentioning our GREAT ABDUL KALAM but u will remove him as he is a muslim..... ur not willing to leave the cow urine without drinking it won't u??
Quote    Reply

counterstrike    RE:IC   10/29/2005 1:56:00 PM
>>Indians and these terrorists are bunch of same flock; terrorizing the world<< so u think pakistan has nothing to do with terrorisim. from now on I will show u the true face of terror by PAK go ask Mushy whats all this.... let me start it of with this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Afghanistan — Muhammad Khaled Mihraban, a polite, soft-spoken 26-year-old Pakistani, thinks he has already killed at least 100 people. Maybe more; he isn't really sure. "My goal was not to kill," he said. "But I had a line to follow, an Islamic ideal. I knew that Muslims needed their own country, a real Islamic country." Mr. Mihraban found that country when he came to Afghanistan in 1992. Having decided "to consecrate my life to jihad" while studying Islamic law at Punjab University in Lahore, he said, he joined a Pakistani militant group that was fighting India in the disputed province of Kashmir. His training took place in Afghanistan. "We learned how to plant mines, how to make bombs using dynamite and how to kill someone quietly," he recalled. A gifted student, he was soon asked to train others in group camps near Khost. "But I wanted to act, not teach," he explained. So after a stint waging war in Kashmir, he returned to Kabul to fight alongside the Taliban forces that control most of the country. Mr. Mihraban, who was captured by the rebels fighting the Taliban in northern Afghanistan, said in an interview in a bleak prison that if he were released, he would "stay right here and fight again for Kabul." If he were asked to do so, he said, he would go to London, Paris or New York and blow up women and children for Islam. "Yes, I would do it," he said quietly, without hesitation. If the international terrorism that has haunted Americans for the last decade has a home, it is Afghanistan, the place that comes closest to the extremists' ideal of a state ruled by the strict code of Islamic law. Afghanistan is an inspiration, an essential base of operations, a reservoir of potential suicide bombers and a battle front where crucial ties are forged. It is also, American officials say, where Osama bin Laden is experimenting with chemical weapons. Participants in nearly every plot against the United States and its allies during the last decade have learned the arts of war and explosives in Afghan camps, authorities say, including the defendants in the 1998 bombings of two American Embassies in East Africa. The Central Intelligence Agency estimates that as many as 50,000 to 70,000 militants from 55 countries have trained here in recent years. The agency says the Taliban permit a wide range of groups to operate in Afghan territory, from the Pakistani militants who trained Mr. Mihraban to Mr. bin Laden's organization Al Qaeda (Arabic for The Base). Middle East officials said that as many as 5,000 recruits have passed through Mr. bin Laden's camps. American and Middle Eastern intelligence officials believe that Mr. bin Laden maintains a network of a dozen camps in Afghanistan that offer training in small arms and in explosives and logistics for terrorist attacks. The officials said the embassy bombings, which killed more than 200 people, were rehearsed on a model built to scale at one of Mr. bin Laden's Afghan camps. One camp, according to those officials, is educating a new generation of recruits in the uses of chemicals, poisons and toxins. Within the last year, trainees at the camp, which is called Abu Khabab, have experimented on dogs, rabbits and other animals with nerve gases, the officials said. Recruits have also fashioned bombs made from commercially available chemicals and poisons, which have been tried out on animals tethered to outdoor posts on the camp test range, according to surveillance photographs and informers' reports. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and u belong to this same ing terror outfits ideology (Hell be upon them).
Quote    Reply

counterstrike    RE:PAKISTAN TODAY - TERROR AT LARGE   10/29/2005 2:01:20 PM U.S. Concludes Pakistan-Backed Group Played Role in Hijacking By JANE PERLEZ WASHINGTON, Jan. 25 -- The United States now believes that a terrorist group generally supported by the Pakistani military was responsible for the hijacking of an Indian Airlines jet last month, a judgment that puts Pakistan at risk of being placed on Washington's list of nations that support terrorism, Clinton administration officials said. The new military leader of Pakistan, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, was asked in a meeting with three administration officials in Islamabad last week to ban the group, Harkat ul-Mujahedeen, but the request was rebuffed, senior officials here said. INDIAN AIRLINES HIJACKING AP Hijacked Indian Airlines plane at Kandahar airport in Afghanistan, Dec. 27. # Recent Coverage Rejecting Hijacking Charge, Pakistan Directs It Back at India (Jan. 8) # India Intensifies Efforts to Tie Pakistan to Hijacking (Jan. 7) # India Is Accusing Pakistan of Being Behind Hijacking (Jan. 4) # India, Under Fire, Hints at Pakistan Role in Hijacking (Jan. 2) # Hostages Land in India After Deal Closed With Hijackers (Jan. 1) # Hijacking Revives Saga of Kashmir Kidnappings in '95 (Dec. 31) # As Hijacking Drama Plays Out, Views on Taliban Shift (Dec. 30) # India Negotiating With Hijackers in Afghanistan (Dec. 28) # Standoff on Hijacked Jet Is Tangled in India-Pakistan Feud (Dec. 27) # Hijackers Demand That India Release Cleric and Kashmiris (Dec. 26) # Hijackers Send Indian Jetliner on an Odyssey (Dec. 25) General Musharraf was also asked to exert pressure on the Taliban government in Afghanistan, with whom Pakistan has friendly relations, to expel Osama bin Laden, implicated in the bombings of two American Embassies in Africa, but no progress was made with that request either, the officials said. The conclusion that a terrorist group supported by Pakistan carried out the hijacking comes as the White House must make a decision in coming weeks about whether President Clinton should visit Pakistan as part of his planned visit to India and Bangladesh at the end of March. The visit to India is expected to be announced this week, with the option of a stop in Pakistan still open, pending some gestures of cooperation by Pakistan, officials said. Rejecting a presidential visit to Pakistan during a trip that includes a visit to India would be one of the most severe snubs the White House could make, especially during the first presidential trip to the region in 21 years. Administration officials said that they received information that Harkat ul-Mujahedeen was responsible for the hijacking after it became clearer who made arrangements for the escape of the hijackers. Harkat ul-Mujahedeen is the new name for Harkat ul-Ansar, a radical Kashmiri nationalist group, which was put on the State Department's list of terrorist groups in 1997, officials said. After being put on the list, the group changed its name. Administration officials declined to give details of precisely what they knew about the group's role in the hijacking that ended with 155 hostages' being freed in exchange for the release from prison of three members of Harkat ul-Mujahedeen by the Indian government. "Indications came through intelligence channels, and I don't know anybody around here, including the skeptics, who don't find that credible," an official said of Harkat ul-Mujahedeen's involvement in the hijacking. But the Administration is not asserting that the Pakistani Government was specifically involved in the hijacking that the terrorist group carried out. "We do not have reason to believe that the government of Pakistan had foreknowledge, supported, or helped carry out this terrorist hijacking," the State Department's spokesman, James P. Rubin, said today. "We have been concerned for some time about links between the Government of Pakistan and the number of groups operating in Kashmir, including HUM. We do have reason to believe that the hijackers may have been affiliated with HUM." Karl F. Inderfurth, the assistant secretary of state for South Asian affairs, who was one of the three officials who met with General Musharraf, told the general that the United States was concerned about the links between Harkat ul-Mujahedeen and his military and intelligence services, officials said. The general was told that the United States believed that Harkat ul-Mujahedeen "was responsible for the hijacking and that United States believed the group operated openly and clandestinely" with the support of the Pakistani military and intelligence services, a senior official said. In response, General Musharraf said he would consider the administration's request to shut down the group, but he left the impression that no action would be taken soon, the official said. The question of Pakistan's role in the hijacking has already inflamed relations between I
Quote    Reply

counterstrike    RE:PAKISTAN Today-US: PAKISTAN IS A TERRORISTS HOT SPOT   10/29/2005 2:03:09 PM
Belive it or not!!! this what US thinks --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In talking with American and foreign government officials and military officers on the front lines fighting terrorists today, we asked them: If you were a terrorist leader today, where would you locate your base? Some of the same places come up again and again on their lists: * western Pakistan and the Pakistan-Afghanistan border region"--->9-11commission report
Quote    Reply

counterstrike    RE:The Chilling Goal of Islam's New Warriors and u call the freedom fighters...lOL   10/29/2005 2:06:25 PM
The Chilling Goal of Islam's New Warriors In Pakistan, today's militant faithful see the entire world as the battlefield for their holy war. By Robin Wright MURIDKE, Pakistan--Abu Samara was a gangling lad of 14 when he joined the jihad. He was still too much of a boy to grow the beard required of holy warriors. But he wasn't too young to master the weapons of war. Within weeks, his long, thin fingers were proficient with assault rifles, hand grenades, rocket launchers and the militants' deadliest device: remote-controlled explosives. Then he volunteered to die. Over the next decade, Abu Samara learned advanced weaponry in the rugged mountains of Afghanistan. He trained alongside Muslim militants from Arab and Asian countries at Afghan camps later attacked by the United States for fostering extremists. Then he joined the Army of the Prophet, or Lashkar-e-Taiba, the most feared of Pakistan's 14 private armies. "From the moment I discovered the idea of jihad [holy war], I knew what I'd do with my life," he explained, sitting cross-legged and barefoot on the ground, an AK-47 slung over his shoulder. The former peasant boy, who at 24 now has a full, untrimmed beard and a head of long, tousled black hair to match, spends most of his time these days in Kashmir, the idyllic Himalayan territory of snowcapped peaks and verdant valleys that has become the world's highest battlefield. His cell of commandos crosses into Kashmir from Pakistan for months at a stretch to carry out suicide missions intended to wrest all of the disputed region from Hindu-dominated India. Most volunteers don't survive more than four years. Abu Samara is the archetype new "Jihadi," a breed of Islamic warrior whose mission is no longer simply fighting infidels and oppressors in Muslim lands--the kind of campaign that put earlier generations of holy warriors on the map in war zones such as Afghanistan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Lebanon and Chechnya. The new Jihadis are the most dangerous face of Islam today. In Pakistan, they are the most aggressive among a growing array of activists and organizations replacing or challenging crumbling state institutions. They've already played a major role in transforming South Asia into the world's most volatile region--and Pakistan into what the United States views as the world's most explosive country. As a result of escalating tension over Kashmir, a U.S. intelligence estimate predicts a 40% to 60% chance of open warfare within the next couple of years between India and Pakistan--two countries that openly tested nuclear weapons in 1998. Yet Abu Samara's mission is not limited to Asia's subcontinent. He's out to change--perhaps even conquer--the world in the name of his faith. "Jihad is not just about fighting against oppression and occupation. Jihad is about the way you think and say prayers, the way you eat and sleep. It's about creating an Islamic environment. It's about the struggle of life," said Abu Samara, a nom de guerre that means "father of bountiful." "Jihad gives life purpose," he said. "Without it, we're useless." Inspired by Success Against the Soviets Virtually all of the private armies in Pakistan, the only Muslim country created solely to preserve a religious identity, are offshoots of groups launched with the help of Pakistani intelligence during the Soviet occupation of neighboring Afghanistan in the 1980s. But they weren't disbanded after Moscow's 1989 withdrawal. Inspired by Islam's role in defeating a superpower, their mission and numbers expanded rapidly. The impoverished South Asian nation is now home to at least 128 camps for militants dedicated to retrieving Kashmir and widening the Islamic world. Once the militants were proxies of the government. Now, even the new military regime is unable or unwilling to rein them in. "If the government tried to stop us, we'd just carry on our jihad. We do what we want," said Abu Samara. In Pakistan, Abu Samara operates out of a secluded compound run by the Center for Islamic Teaching and Guidance, or Markaz al Dawa Wal Irshad, in the countryside beyond Muridke, a half-hour's drive from Lahore. It's one of a growing number of Jihadi camps throughout Pakistan that offers both religious and military training. The center is a tranquil compound tightly guarded by the Army of the Prophet, the group's armed wing formed in 1993. "Jihad for Peace" is crudely slopped on the entrance wall in English. Inside are training fields, obstacle courses and tightropes strung treacherously high between trees to train Jihadis how to cross Kashmir's rivers and ravines. To qualify, militants as young as 12 must be able to carry another fighter across the high wire. There are no safety nets. The compound is self-sustaining: Wheat fields, orchards, a dairy and man-made lakes to cultivate fish surround small apartment blocks. The extensive facilities include a clinic, grammar and secondary schools, an Islamic university, homes for families of those
Quote    Reply

Indian cadet    RE:counterstrike   10/29/2005 3:37:23 PM
I did ask hindus who have done something for india? u forget to mention Johny Lever and ShaktiKapoor, Gulshan Grover Lolllllll
Quote    Reply

Indian cadet    RE:Indian Hijack Drama to blame Pakistan? A failed try( lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllsssssss)   10/29/2005 3:47:50 PM
Indians were sitting on the back of USSR during war; and now wanna jump on USA' back...Why Indians were providing intelligence to USSR against Pakistan and U people are oppurtunists...Till 9-11, Indians did`nt even know how to spell "TERRORISM" ,now only trying yr best to blame Pakistan to gain sympathy of the world`;;; Now, a days, Indians have only one job left; Just wakeup in the morning and start singing'" DHOLI TARA DHOLE BAJE.........."lol, the propaganda drum beat against Pakistan ...... but nobody in the world giving any heat to you. The world knows about the truth...Just stop cashing these world`s tragedies/ A proof of Indian taking advantage of Hijack drama......... but poor Hindus' conspiracy fail as always/// lols AFTER the September 11 World Trade Centre calamity, panic is in the air - literally. Every straying plane appears to be a ticking bomb. Reputed airlines are going out of business for want of passengers. In such an uncertain and jittery state of mind, panic reaction is not something unexpected. Frayed nerves of several men in authority who are expected to have a grip on every situation gave way on Wednesday night and caused a chain overreaction that kept the whole nation awake about a plane hijack that was not. The situation which appears farcical now was so tense at that time that Rashtrapati Nivas and the Prime Minister's house were almost evacuated. What triggered the flurry of activity was a hoax call that a Mumbai-Delhi Alliance Air flight was going to be hijacked. Officials concerned put two and two together and added them up to 22. By the time the warning was conveyed to the commander of the plane by the Ahmedabad air traffic controller, it had acquired a grim certainty that the plane will be hijacked. The pilot asked the cabin crew to look for "suspicious" passengers. There were none, but the behaviour of two was considered to be unusual enough for the pilot to hurriedly press the panic button that the plane had actually been hijacked. He thought the hijackers were in the passengers' cabin while the passengers thought they were in the pit. Everyone on the ground, be it the Commissioner of the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security or the Civil Aviation Secretary, made the situation worse by relying on rumours. Even Civil Aviation Minister Shahnawaz Hussain added his mite. The result was that the passengers and their relatives had a harrowing time, as did thousands of people on the ground along with security personnel. The crisis management group was scrambled and the Prime Minister remained awake till 4 am. The embarrassment that the episode has caused is palpable. Mr Atal Behari Vajpayee has not only expressed his displeasure but also ordered an enquiry by a special secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs. That is highly significant, considering that normally such probes are conducted by civil aviation officials. There were goof-ups galore and instead of covering them up, it would be worth its while to learn valuable lessons from them. While government officials are trying to take credit that the CMG rose to the occasion in a matter of minutes, they are downplaying the fact that there were communication lapses galore. To err on the side of caution is all right in such a tricky situation, but the compounding of errors that occurred at every step was inexcusable. Various limbs of the government have yet to learn to function in harmony and one shudders to think of the consequences if there indeed was such a hijack. Were we prepared to avoid a repeat of the 1999 Kandahar hijack of a Kathmandu-Delhi flight? Unfortunately, it is not possible to give an emphatic affirmative reply.
Quote    Reply

swhitebull    Ren(egade) and Stimpy   10/29/2005 4:58:43 PM
...maybe thats why he got removed from his job he is "former" are you really that stupid or is just your education? ... I can see that the subtleties of the English language to portray thoughts beyond: "Please strap on the next belt, I want my 72 raisins" - are beyond your ken to perceive when the statement "cleaning out the Augean stables" clearly refers to your Islamic-permeated ISI intel entire system in toto, not just one former islamic fanatic of ISI. Sigh, but that is to be expected when you grow up in a madrassah-educated entity. And btw - MY education is perhaps a bit underappreciated, jaundiced and irrelevant here in the states - Masters in intl law, intl economics and intl business, with a double major in Middle East and Soviet Studies just isnt appreciated anymore. My academic advisor/professor was a South Asian expert, spoke fluent Urdu and Pashtu, and Hebrew and Arabic to boot, is with the Brookings Institute these days, and was on national television when the ISI-created Taliban were bearded in their own den by US and coalition forces. Let's just say that I work for a government agency these days, and build databases and geographical information systems that track certain global patterns of behaviors and incidents. We shall leave it at that. My education has finally paid off - big time. So Ren, or should I say Stimpy, since that seems to be the extent of your comments (look it up - Ren and Stimpy, you'll get the point), I suppose that you might want to reconsider your personal attacks on your betters, there's been a lot of detritus among the Pakistanis on these boards lately, and Im sure you dont want to be one of them. swhitebull - thank you very much for your kind words.
Quote    Reply

Indian cadet    RE:swhitebull   10/29/2005 5:15:52 PM
hi s white "BULL", can you spell "TERRORISM' for me lol
Quote    Reply

trustedsourceofinfo    RE:SWB   10/29/2005 5:17:49 PM
SWB-This is a little Paki kid in NJ with no future! Eventually some fine day he might stake a claim to those 72 virgins and glorify the name of his ancestors andfellow Paki brothers! He's not even worth it! Look at his statement... ""...maybe thats why he got removed from his job"" --->He's not even sure abt it.He isnt sure of anything-Thats his culture and religion.BAsed on perceived maybe's and if's and but's.... ""Let's just say that I work for a government agency these days, and build databases and geographical information systems that track certain global patterns of behaviors and incidents. We shall leave it at that. My education has finally paid off - big time."" --->Well,its nice to see you utilizing all that knowledge to real time use! Any web sites you can recommend for this kinda work?!
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3   NEXT