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Subject: Sea Darts removed from Type 42s
EssexBoy    6/7/2008 8:26:54 AM
Good grief - I know the Sea Darts are passed their sell by date, but really.... http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Royal-Navy-ships-at-sea.416208.jp What is the point of ordering two aircraft carriers when we can't arm our surface vessels properly? Essex
 
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Herald12345    The Type 45s will be able to do the job......   6/7/2008 8:49:46 AM


Good grief - I know the Sea Darts are passed their sell by date, but really....
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Royal-Navy-ships-at-sea.416208.jp" target="_blank">link

What is the point of ordering two aircraft carriers when we can't arm our surface vessels properly?

Essex

..................quite well; provided that the ASTER is replaced with a decent rocket. With what the RN should replace ASTER?  Well there are always alternatives. ESSM and RAM?

Herald
 
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eldnah       6/7/2008 10:14:14 AM
Why have Sea Darts when you are rapidly retiring all your Type 42's and you have already removed the launchers from you Invincibles? The Type 45s will be available if and when the CVFs are built. Have  four or six Type 45s actually been ordered
 
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flamingknives       6/7/2008 10:47:12 AM
Have ammunition for the systems you have in service? How absurd.

It's like a sending a tank out with only ammunition for the co-ax.
 
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EssexBoy       6/8/2008 11:31:58 AM

Why have Sea Darts when you are rapidly retiring all your Type 42's and you have already removed the launchers from you Invincibles? The Type 45s will be available if and when the CVFs are built. Have  four or six Type 45s actually been ordered


Six have been ordered and all are under construction. The first of class is under-going sea trials and the second has been launched and is being fitted out.
 
Unfortunately, due to bugetary constraints, they are not being fitted with all the weapons they were designed to carry ie no harpoons and no torpedoes, and will only be carrying 48 Asters (no nice quad packed ESSM). Furthermore, they're not being fitted with the extra two (strike length) VLS that they can take, so no tomahawks either. All in all a bargain at about a £1bn each.
 
I think we should have gone with the German, Dutch and Spanish F100 program. We might have been able to afford a useful number of those.
 
Essex
 
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prometheus       6/11/2008 4:38:03 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, is'nt the sea dart being removed from the batch 2 T-42s, and then only those being deployed to the drug patrol in the carribean? Since the older stubbier batch 2 T-42s are'nt briliant sea keepers, and since they are unlikely to face down any significant SSM or aircraft threat boarding drug runner boats in the carribean, then isn't this a bit of a non story?
 
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prometheus       6/11/2008 4:44:57 AM




Why have Sea Darts when you are rapidly retiring all your Type 42's and you have already removed the launchers from you Invincibles? The Type 45s will be available if and when the CVFs are built. Have  four or six Type 45s actually been ordered




Six have been ordered and all are under construction. The first of class is under-going sea trials and the second has been launched and is being fitted out.

 

Unfortunately, due to bugetary constraints, they are not being fitted with all the weapons they were designed to carry ie no harpoons and no torpedoes, and will only be carrying 48 Asters (no nice quad packed ESSM). Furthermore, they're not being fitted with the extra two (strike length) VLS that they can take, so no tomahawks either. All in all a bargain at about a £1bn each.

 

I think we should have gone with the German, Dutch and Spanish F100 program. We might have been able to afford a useful number of those.

 

Essex


Built for and not with. That's the budgetary reality facing the British armed forces as a whole, instead of fully evolved systems we get baseline standard specs that will be upgraded over their lifetimes. At the moment the T-45s will be purchased with their primary function intact. They have enough room to grow into a land attack role if necessary.
They'll have the SAMPSON/Aster combination and CIWS for their initial role, even a 'mere' 48 launchers is a massive capability jump on the twin launcher on the T-42. There is probably enough room at the back of the SYLVER luanchers to stick in some Tomahawk tubes if necessary, even harpoon could be bolted on somewhere. Whether or not that is deemed fiscally prudent is another thing, remember we use our SSNS largely as our primary anti-ship/long range land attack asset just now, with the QE carriers coming in later to provide a proper long range strike ability.
 
For it's primary function, the T-45 is a good ship and it's sensor suite alone is worth the billion pounds.
 
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eldnah       10/4/2008 11:59:12 AM
The Telegraph reports today that three of the last four Type 42 batch 2 destroyers have been laid up leaving four Type 42 batch 3 and the last one of the batch 2s  as the only area air defence ships in Royal Navy. According to the article the first of the type 45 destroyers is not expected to join the fleet for two more years. Have any of these remaining Type 42s been the ones to have their Sea Darts removed or had they been removed only from the ones laid up?
 
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LB    RN Dying.   10/4/2008 11:43:47 PM
The 4 remaining type 22 batch 3's are next.  That will leave 5 type 42's and 13 type 22's which is barely a flotilla much less a fleet or a navy.  There should be a law that the RN can not have more admirals than destroyers and frigates- I believe there are currently 41.  They might have done more to protest the death of their historic service.  Very proud to have known you RN.
 
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StevoJH       10/5/2008 5:55:12 AM




Why have Sea Darts when you are rapidly retiring all your Type 42's and you have already removed the launchers from you Invincibles? The Type 45s will be available if and when the CVFs are built. Have  four or six Type 45s actually been ordered




Six have been ordered and all are under construction. The first of class is under-going sea trials and the second has been launched and is being fitted out.

 

Unfortunately, due to bugetary constraints, they are not being fitted with all the weapons they were designed to carry ie no harpoons and no torpedoes, and will only be carrying 48 Asters (no nice quad packed ESSM). Furthermore, they're not being fitted with the extra two (strike length) VLS that they can take, so no tomahawks either. All in all a bargain at about a £1bn each.

 

I think we should have gone with the German, Dutch and Spanish F100 program. We might have been able to afford a useful number of those.

 

Essex

Why would you want ESSM? Last time i checked, ESSM was semi-active radar homing and would require the addition of illuminators to the ships, defeating the purpose having them fitted with "active homing" Aster in the first place, the mid range SAM will not be Aster 15, but rather CAMM which is under development but wont enter service until ~2017 as the sea wolf replacement.

 
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