Fan-boy list of ideal UK Forces - you have been warned

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Subject: Fan-boy list of ideal UK Forces - you have been warned
perfectgeneral 11/12/2007 12:39:52 AM

I estimate that MoD spending might increase to as much as 3% or even 3.5% of GDP if defence funding is given the priority that it warrants. For the UK: Space Programme Contribute 10% to ESA programme plus military satellites for intel, comms and navigation Defence research and Trident replacement Allocate 0.5% of GDP for defence research and nuclear deterrent on top of defence spending Air Force Personnel 45,000 Fixed Wing (48 F-22 Raptor - If congress allows) 232 Typhoon to tranche 3 standard (upgrade to 'tranche 4') 138 F-35b 96 F-35c 12 C17 Globemaster 50 A400m 24 A330 tanker/transports 12 E3d Sentry 12 Sentinel 24 Nimrod MR (A330 airframe?) 9 Nimrod R (A330 airframe?) 9 Dominie T1 75 Grob 115E Tutor 25 Firefly T67 M260 25 Beech King Air B200 50 Tucano T1 50 Hawk 128 50 Hawk T1A 132 Grob G103A Twin II Acro Viking T1 132 Grob 109B Vigilant T1 Executive transport Six BAe 125 executive jets (Series 700), two BAe 146s, two Islander BN2T CC Mk2 maintainence and training budget set to ensure maximum readiness Begin development of a carrier based F-22 style fighter with USN Navy Personnel 45,000 Ships 3 CVF STOVL 65,000t(Queen Elizabeth class) one every four years: 2014,2018,2022 COGASE power plant 30 knots peak, 20 knots cruise, 10 knots loiter.. refit to CTOL 72,000t, COGAS-E power plant 32 knots peak, 18 knots cruise, 8 knots loiter by 2038, 2042 and 2046 respectively. 3 LPH (New 40,000t class) one every three years: 2025,2028,2031 3 LPD (Albion class replacement 20,000 tons) one every two years: 2033,2035,2037 4+2 LSD (Bay class) - aux One escort every 12 months: (stable state of 24 over 24 years) 12 AAW Destroyers (Daring class) 12 ASW Frigates (Duke class replacements 12 x 6000t) One cruiser every three years: (stable state of 8 over 24 years) 8 Light Cruisers: 9000t-10000t 155mm main gun, 96 cell Sylver launcher for Aster15/30, Storm Shadow and CAMM quad packs, 2-4x CB90 patrol boats plus helo (2Merlin/3Slynx) hanger and two spot deck, 0-4 STANIFLEX modules. COGAS-E power plant 30 knots peak, 20 knots cruise, 10 knots loiter.. 2 Multi-role survey vessels (Echo class) 1 Antartic patrol ship (HMS Endurance) 1 Ocean survey vessel 20 Mission module corvettes/light frigates: (one every 15 months - replacing other vessels of these types) 3750t, 76mm/56mm/30mm CISW main gun, 0-1 + 0-2 STANIFLEX modules (Slynx deck and hanger/mine hunting/coastal survey/patrol/UUV or SuUV mothership/SF deployment). COGAS-E power plant 30 knots peak, 20 knots cruise, 10 knots loiter. MARS (6 fast oiler+supply 30knots peak, 20knots cruise, 14 others, 22knots peak, 12knots cruise?) - aux 6 Ro-ro transports - aux Submarines 7 SSN (Astute class) 0+4 SSBN (Vanguard class replacement) 0+4 SSN (Trafalgar class replacement batch 1) A nuclear submarine built every 22 months (minimum) Aircraft 36 V-22 Osprey 24 EH101Merlin/V-22Osprey - AEW 44 EH101 Merlin ASW 67 Super Lynx 24 EH101 Cormorant search and rescue 39 Squirrel HT1 Fast boats 20 Training (Archer class replacements) 4 Patrol (Sabre class replacements) Royal Marines 3 Commando (1+3 bn + 1 of reservists) + Marine Artillery + Corps units Executive transport Four EH101 Merlin HC3 helicopters maintainence and training budget set to ensure maximum readiness 1st bn Rifles would become the core of an army 2 Commando along with the army elements of 3 Commando (these would be replaced by RM engineers, logistics and artillery to form an all RM 3 Commando). 40 commando would attach to special forces, like 1 Para. Army Personnel 120,000 2 Commando (3 bn + 1 TA) + 1 RA + Corps units 1st Parachute Regt (5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Royal Gurkha Regt (3 bn + 1 in Nepal & 1 in Brunei) + 1 RA + Corps units Guards Division (5 bn foot, 3 bn cav) + 2 RA + Corps units 6 regional regiments: Scots (5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Rifles (sw)(5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units King's (n)(5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Prince of Wales (5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Queen's (se)(5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Irish (5 bn + 2 TA) + 2 RA + Corps units Brigades 101,102,103 & 104 Logistic bdes 2 & 3 Commando bdes (3 commando is RM unit) 19 & 52 Light bdes 16 & 8 Air Assault bdes 1, 4 & 12 Mechanised bdes 7 & 20 Armoured bdes Armour 350 Challenger 2 136 Sabre* 48 Striker (with Swingfire ATGW)* 320 Scimitar* 1,492 FV 432/430* 793 MCV 80 Warrior 478 Spartan* 622 Saxon* 108 Mastiff* 11 Fuchs (NBC recce vehicles) *=some or all possibly replaced by 3000 FRES variants Artillery & Mortars 146 AS 90 155mm SP Gun 63 227mm MLRS 48 FH 70 155mm towed howitzer 136 105mm Light Gun 48 155mm Light Gun (M777) 450 81mm mortar (including 110 x self-propelled) 2093 51mm Light Mortar Aircraft 6 BN-2 Islander 67 Apache Longbow (UK version) 100 EH101 Merlin HC3 36 CH-46d Chinook HC3 67 Super Lynx A

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Herald1234 Question from the Peanut Gallery 11/21/2007 6:15:43 PM

FLynx would be a mix of naval and over-the-beach support for the RM, before the Army appears with their Apaches.

Army Apache will never serve in a similar role to Lynx, in the naval role. Apache isn't suitable for naval operations what so ever with its narrow undercarriage and airframe construction et al. It will be carried on ships, but only to disembark onto a land field.

What about the Sea Cobras that operated in the anti-surface warfare role in the Persian Gulf? They have shot up a few bogjammers and sunk a few pirates when an ASW helo wasn't exactly either available or suitable. An antitank rocket or free flight rocket from a helo gunship salvo has done a number on a couple of "freighters" as well.

If I can see the merits of the 105 on land in niche applications, then maybe you can see the Apache as an anti-shipping strike asset when you are short of naval helos or when the targets don't need a NAShM and could use a Hellfire or auto cannon fire instead.

Herald

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Yimmy Herald 11/21/2007 9:43:27 PM

There is no reason why Westland Apache couldn't be used in the anti-shiping role with Helfire and FFR from land facilities. The warship borne operations of this nature have been conducted by Lynx fitted with Sea Skua missiles in RN service. Size wise I would suggest Sea Skua is similar to early Maverick.

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interestedamateur 11/22/2007 3:16:21 AM

Reply to FK:

"If you expect Javelin teams with an infantry company, you'd have to change the current establishment. ATGM, mortars and machine guns are in a battalion support company."

I know, but I feel that you would need to increase the size of the Support Company to ensure that the 4th Rifle Company could be fully supported by Mortars, Javelins etc. Hence the need for more vehicles than just the 14 you mentioned. For instance a Btn currently has 6 x 81mm Mortars and I would want to increase this to 8. Similarly there will be 18 Javelins per Armd Inf Btn (6 per rifle company) and I would want to increase this to 24 etc. The 9 snipers would be raised to 12.

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