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Subject: Health Care
Jimme    10/23/2007 2:51:42 AM
I was reading the "required defense spending" thread and I read some of the figures for the UK's health Care spending and I have to tell you it seams a bit excessive. At $180 Billion for a population of 60 million, that comes to around $3,000 per person. Or around the same exact price as private health insurance cost for an Individual. This really caught my attention because as a small business owner who has always believed in nothing but the best health care coverage for my employees(I even splurge for full dental) I was recently shopping around for a new plan. I noticed there are great deals with good coverage to be had if you only look and bargain a little. With this in mind I was thinking might not UK's interest be better served if it switched to a private health care system and just paid the private insurance premiums for all but the rich? I think you could save at least 30% Since a family can be grouped together for around $8,000 instead of $3k per person. Even a family of 3 would save $1,000 and a family of 5 $7k. Now I really don't know exactly how your system works but I have heard of long wait times for basic care and even longer for dental. Maybe a move to privatization would move things to more of a US type system where I can basically see my doctor tomorrow if I really had to, or by the end of the week if it could wait. So what do you guys think, now I may be ignorant and might have things all wrong so please excuse me if that is the case. I would be interested to know exactly how you Health Care system does work in any case. Do you have PCPs, if not who administers your primary care. If you wanted to see your doctor or a doctor, what would it involve to schedule an appointment. How is dental care handled. How are prescriptions handled?
 
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Jimme    3 questions   10/26/2007 3:37:43 AM
1-How rampant are medical malpractice lawsuits in the UK? As RB stated it is one of the USs biggest problems in terms of healthcare costs. Malpractice insurance rates are through the roof and the lawyers are filing suits left and right. This brings the total costs up across the board, meaning ultimately the public gets stuck paying for these mistakes.


2-How do University Hospitals function within the NHS in the UK? In the US they are one of our biggest assets and best bang for the buck. They function as public hospitals providing care to all, they offer some of the best care retaining many of the worlds greatest doctors, are on the cutting edge many developing newer and better procedures for a host of different ailments, and lastly they provide training and hands on experience for our next generation of physicians. They are also most likely to perform pro bono procedures for poor patients. All this and they are less expensive for the city since they receive their  funding from multiple sources.

3- How does the UK NHS treat non citizens that need medical care while in town? In the US emergency medical care is mandatory for anyone entering an ER. I recall there used to be a problem here in NYC were women would come here to give birth from abroad then skip town without paying the bill. I also recall being in Sweden and getting sick, going to the hospital and being refused any service till someone arrived with my credit card.

 
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perfectgeneral       10/26/2007 12:56:05 PM
People move to the UK for the medical treatment. I know of Americans that have been here for years getting free treatment for longterm conditions. If you are allowed into the country you are allowed free treatment.
 
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EssexBoy       10/26/2007 2:32:50 PM

1-How rampant are medical malpractice lawsuits in the UK? As RB stated it is one of the USs biggest problems in terms of healthcare costs. Malpractice insurance rates are through the roof and the lawyers are filing suits left and right. This brings the total costs up across the board, meaning ultimately the public gets stuck paying for these mistakes.


2-How do University Hospitals function within the NHS in the UK? In the US they are one of our biggest assets and best bang for the buck. They function as public hospitals providing care to all, they offer some of the best care retaining many of the worlds greatest doctors, are on the cutting edge many developing newer and better procedures for a host of different ailments, and lastly they provide training and hands on experience for our next generation of physicians. They are also most likely to perform pro bono procedures for poor patients. All this and they are less expensive for the city since they receive their  funding from multiple sources.

3- How does the UK NHS treat non citizens that need medical care while in town? In the US emergency medical care is mandatory for anyone entering an ER. I recall there used to be a problem here in NYC were women would come here to give birth from abroad then skip town without paying the bill. I also recall being in Sweden and getting sick, going to the hospital and being refused any service till someone arrived with my credit card.


Question 3
If a foreign tourist turns up at the A&E department of an NHS hospital they will be treated for free. This will be the case if they've broken a leg or having a cardiac arrest. It's more difficult to be admitted to a non-emergency department of a hospital (say for radiotherapy); ordinarily you would have to be referred to such a department by your G.P. (family doctor). I'm not sure how the "health tourists" manage to get referred on as their entitlement to care in the UK should be checked before referral.
 
Just as an aside, some years ago the wife of the US comic Denis Leary went into (very)premature labour on a London pavement (sidewalk) whilst Leary was performing overhere. Fortunately she was only a five minute taxi ride  from University College Hospital, which has one of the best departments for treating premature babies in the world. The baby was saved after weeks of care, and the Learys eventually  returned to the US. They were never charged for their care but I believe that the Learys made a substantial donation to the Hospital and they have helped promote the Hospital's fund raising campaign.
 
I used to think he was just a Bill Hicks rip-off merchant, but I changed my mind when I read about this episode.
 
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SGTObvious       10/26/2007 2:46:50 PM

People move to the UK for the medical treatment. I know of Americans that have been here for years getting free treatment for longterm conditions. If you are allowed into the country you are allowed free treatment.

Really?  That's great.  One day, if I'm broke and desperate and sick I might take you up on the offer.  Fortunately, I am a specialist in the maintenance and restoration of historic buildings so I can eventually work off at least part of the freebie.
I can teach you guys to use sectional scaffolding.  Everything you folks set up is some sort of arranged on the spot hodge podge.
 
SGTObvious
 
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perfectgeneral       10/26/2007 9:53:07 PM
Your services would be most welcome in the historic city of Cambridge (UK). You may have to bring your sectional scaffold with you.
 
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Ehran       10/29/2007 2:11:15 PM




What happens in the US if a person has a chronic illness

that incapacitates them for years and their health insurance hits the limit?

Conditions such as paraplegia or even severe arthritis?




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In the NHS, that person will still be treated and even the

drugs required will be free if the person has a low or no income.



That is one of the bigger problems in the US. Many people with long term illnesses can run out of coverage. There are options many of these people have though that ranged from government sponsored programs to private not for profit organizations. Even pharmaceutical companies have programs to help those that can't afford their medicines. It could be a lot better though. This is one of the perks of the UK system that would make the hybrid model i suggested a great one.


jimme "long term" can be just a couple of weeks under the us system.  some friends down in wash state and i actually pulled out their ins policy which they said was mildly better than average and their coverage caps were easily reachable in quite short order via the intensive care ward.  even better the coverage caps were for the life of the policy not just one incident.  you get seriously ill and a half million dollars can vanish damn quick.
 
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Jimme       10/30/2007 12:06:52 AM



jimme "long term" can be just a couple of weeks under the us system.  some friends down in wash state and i actually pulled out their ins policy which they said was mildly better than average and their coverage caps were easily reachable in quite short order via the intensive care ward.  even better the coverage caps were for the life of the policy not just one incident.  you get seriously ill and a half million dollars can vanish damn quick.


Nonsense, most mid to major surgeries require at least a week or two in the ICU by your reasoning anyone whos had such surgery would be totaly without health care which just isn't true. My sister this year was induced labor on a premature baby after coming down with a condition called pre-eclampsia, both her and the baby were in ICU for 4 weeks and spent a total of 6 weeks at the hospital.  Now her insurance isn't the best , its probably below average. If it were how you say she would have been kicked out after the 3rd week no?  Now just for the record, nobody can be kicked out of the ICU for not having insurance or money or anything like that. Its against the Law.
 
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Asymmetric       10/30/2007 11:08:25 AM
 May I ask Jimme, what battle is it you?re trying to fight here? I am not about to get bogged down in this discussion but I am merely wondering since your comparing it to the US model.

If you?re arguing against the concept universal health care (with no means testing at demand) then you are fighting a losing struggle. It is a battle that has been all but won in the UK and the wider western world for the last 50 years (with the notable exception being the US and South Africa), even accursed Thatcher knew not to meddle with it.

However if you are arguing that Britain should selectively adopt managed care and managed competition elements, in order to remedy the symptoms of a calcified health care system without sacrificing underlying principles of its social welfare state, like the German or Swedish models, then that is a point of view that can be argued with a great deal of merit.

Personally I?m a happy bunny now that the Scottish parliament recently announced scrapping the Private Finance initiative for public building projects and replace it with Scottish Public Service Trusts. These trusts would oversee investment in the public sector, raise funds through bond issues, and hold assets in trust during the contract period after which the buildings would revert to public ownership, all which greatly affects the health service.

 
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perfectgeneral       10/30/2007 6:40:48 PM
I owe it to my family to move to Scotland. No tuition fees either.
 
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bob the brit       10/30/2007 6:49:46 PM






jimme "long term" can be just a couple of weeks under the us system.  some friends down in wash state and i actually pulled out their ins policy which they said was mildly better than average and their coverage caps were easily reachable in quite short order via the intensive care ward.  even better the coverage caps were for the life of the policy not just one incident.  you get seriously ill and a half million dollars can vanish damn quick.




Nonsense, most mid to major surgeries require at least a week or two in the ICU by your reasoning anyone whos had such surgery would be totaly without health care which just isn't true. My sister this year was induced labor on a premature baby after coming down with a condition called pre-eclampsia, both her and the baby were in ICU for 4 weeks and spent a total of 6 weeks at the hospital.  Now her insurance isn't the best , its probably below average. If it were how you say she would have been kicked out after the 3rd week no?  Now just for the record, nobody can be kicked out of the ICU for not having insurance or money or anything like that. Its against the Law.

but who foots the bills once you're out (assuming you don't have money or insurance)
 
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