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Subject: best British General level Commander for each century
paul1970    9/25/2007 8:38:57 AM
as above
 
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Herald1234    Paul reply   9/26/2007 11:23:37 AM
1. Basicly Monty bollixed up the original beach landing program scattering the landing forces and allowing a potential defeat in detail. His air staff crocked up the route planning for the parachute drop and failed to communicate with the Allied navy about approach routes.
 
2. Caen- he ignored Ultra warnings that the Germans were setting up a fire sack and had moved in the Adolf hitler Division to throw him a Happy Birthday party. This was onb top of the HUGE MISTAKE of not taking Caen on D+1 loke the Americans had screamed about in the initial planning. Eisenhower for all his faults knew what a road net was and knerw what KEY TERRAIN was. Caen was the hub of the road net out of Normandy and it was key terrain. Itr would have been bloody and desperate but doable on D+1. It would have saved rwo months and COBRA. 90 days attrition is a Monty apologists EXCUSE to cover up that their hero screwed up the Normandy campaign. He planned it that way?  No sane general plans to be cooped up for two months and lose 80,000 precious men when by spending 5000 men he can force the beaten enemy into a full scale retreat and open up to pursue cross country within days.  
 
3. I forgot Monty's crockup at the Falaise Pocket. Failed to close the hole he did.  55000 Germans escaped to form cadre groups to reconstitute with raw recruits new units for Bradley's Birthday Party
 
4. Market Garden-I don't care how many times you assert it no AMERICAN tank army commander would have tried to run an assault column up through polder country on a single raised causeway road. Once again the Dutch UG and Bletchley knew that panzers were reforming in the woods to the east and south of Nijmiegen and they got that through to London. The poor British tankers were like ducks in a carnival shooting line for those PAK 40 gunners What the hell happened?  
 
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Herald
 
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caltrop    More Monty   9/26/2007 12:03:09 PM
If the Remagen bridge scenario had occured in Monty's sector, would anyone argue that he would have acted quickly to take advantage of this tactical opportunity?  It seems quite unlikely to me based on his history.
 
In the memoirs from Gen James Gavin, 82nd Airborne, he stated that he personally liked Monty.  But he disliked that he was too much of a set-piece tactician.  He cited an example towards the end of the war where his unit was ordered by Monty to halt an advance at a river.  For the first few days, the Germans were disorganized and Gavin believed that his unit could have immediately forced a crossing with minimal casaulties.  But Monty wanted to get everything set just so and Gavin was frustrated as he could see the Germans re-organize and strengthen their defenses on a daily basis.  Gavin believed the delay, despite the marshalling of the Allied forces, was just going to get more of his troopers killed or wounded in the subsequent assault.
 
Monty was adequate.  If he is the best that can be offered up for the 20th century, then that certainly falls into the category of "damning with faint praise"
 
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TC27       10/3/2007 3:26:50 PM
Its hard to find objective views on BLM because the british press built him up as a hero while popular American opinion derides him as a pompous buffon (though they have much the same blindspot for Patton).


I dont rate Montgomery because in the end he let his pride get the better of his actually very sound military judgement, fundamentally thats what caused Market Garden and destroyed 6 para as a fighting force. (and as Herald has rightly said it was the single axis of advance for XXX corps along a highway still contested by 60,000 German troops that really caused the failure, the Panzers just hammered in the nails).

That said he deserves praise for refining and running the Overlord plan, as for the Normandy battle it becomes apparant that privately he realised that he needed to keep the bulk of the Panzer divisions occupied on his front allowing the Americans to break out (he deserved most of the credit for the success of Cobra IMO). However he was to proud to admit this publically and billed Goodwood and Epsome as breakout operations which they werent, he handed ammunition to his critics because of his pride.

Its also interesting to consider that at that point the British army was facing a real manpower crises and high causalties were polictically and strategically unacceptable, in that sense he had to act within the constraints of his position and the tank heavy/infantry light tactics of his Caen were forced upon him.
 
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longrifle       10/4/2007 1:19:50 AM
I notice that Henry Clinton and Charles Cornwallis didn't make anyone's list.
 
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